3200 stuck starter motor

[Spartacus]

A friend of a friend has a stuck starter motor on a 3200GT . I told him to take it to Mike Roberts but he s booked up .

any advice for him ? ...apart from scrapping it and buying a 4200 ;P

 

[safrane]

When you say stuck, at which position?
Stays engaged after the engine fires;
wont enguage to the fly wheel so spins without turning the engine, or;
Fails to turn the engine or itself?

 

[R3TRO]

When you say stuck, at which position?
Stays engaged after the engine fires;
wont enguage to the fly wheel so spins without turning the engine, or;
Fails to turn the engine or itself?

Hi thanks for posting. The car is an auto and starter fails to turn the engine or itself - only hear the 'click' when turning the key. All avenues looked at so far either booked up or not willing to take on a Maserati. Car is near Beaulieu and have availability to deliver by recovery.

 

[safrane]

Are you able to release the 'Park' facility on the Auto box and then firmly put back into park?

It may be that the sensor is not registered that you are not in gear.

If that does not help try to rock the car in park - forward and backwards as the starter motor could be jammed.

Do you have a fully charged battery? The starter can draw a lot of power and without it it will not spin.

Other than that or hitting it (SM not the car like Basil Faulty) I am out of ideas.

 

[Contigo]

If it clicks then it ain't the starter motor. Change the battery first!

 

[R3TRO]

If it clicks then it ain't the starter motor. Change the battery first!

Hi, sorry forgot to mention the battery was the first thing replaced.

 

[safrane]

Check the new battery is fully charged and all the leads are tight.

 

[R3TRO]

Thanks for this. Yes it's a new battery as this was first thought. Second thought was rpm sensor as there was a hot starting issue shown up under diagnostics. However if an airline was blown over starter or let the car cool she'd start. Now the starter refuses to turn. Park is working ok so will try your suggestion. Motor rotates freely on crank.

 

[CatmanV2]

I wonder if the click is the solenoid trying to, and failing to engage fully. I'd be tempted to try a Glasgow socket set next time it happens. Had a very similar issue with my old Alfa

C

 

[Contigo]

The problem is that on a 3200 the start motor sits right in the Vee of the engine so you can't take a hammer or blunt instrument to it like on the 4200. The one I bought as a project had a knackered starter but we got it going with a bump start as it was a manual car! The best thing to do is check battery voltage, check connections too as Catman suggests and then also think about getting a truck to recover you. Fitting a new motor is not a hard job at all, I did my last one.

 

[CatmanV2]

The problem is that on a 3200 the start motor sits right in the Vee of the engine so you can't take a hammer or blunt instrument to it like on the 4200. The one I bought as a project had a knackered starter but we got it going with a bump start as it was a manual car! The best thing to do is check battery voltage, check connections too as Catman suggests and then also think about getting a truck to recover you. Fitting a new motor is not a hard job at all, I did my last one.

Oh of course! Thats a PITA. Bit of an odd place to put it as well. Still yes. Phil's got the next best things listed

C

 

[Trev Latter]

I'd go with faulty starter. The magnets break up internally and jam it all up resulting in a healthy click, but not much else. If the starter was failing, it may have contributed to the hot start issue if the engine was turning more slowly. The management software cuts fuel supply if turning at less than 50rpm.

 

[highlander]

Before replacing the starter or even trying to get to it try the yellow relays in the box on the driver side under the vent. One went on marci two years ago due to water getting in (washing her too much) producing a click noise but no start but once rice dried and contacts cleaned, it was fine.

 

[alfatwo]

I'd go with faulty starter. The magnets break up internally and jam it all up resulting in a healthy click, but not much else. If the starter was failing, it may have contributed to the hot start issue if the engine was turning more slowly. The management software cuts fuel supply if turning at less than 50rpm.

That exactly what happens Trev, the magnets come unbonded and jam up the armature

With the later type starter motors the magnets are physically clipped in and don't give any trouble

Dave

 

[davy83]

I would agree on the likelyhood of the starter being goosed. they are notorious for failing, because of the heat in that VEE area. i replaced my starter after it stopped working with a Bosch unit (which touch wood has been faultless for 7 years now i think) and there are a few other alternatives so take a moment to look at your options when replacing it. it is worth checking the cables as there is a very long power lead from the battery and there are two earthing straps that are bolted to the body below the bellhousing, these can corrode at the point they are bolted to the body, and this affects starting too. Gregs comment on relays is also a good one, the electrical stuff is pretty ropey, sorry, has Italian character.

 

[R3TRO]

Phil, many thanks for reply. Read the article written when you replaced your starter and got on and did mine. Took it to JustAlternatorsandStarters in Botley (recommended) and bench tested motor on test rig. Smoke coming out... On strip down magnets were off. New starter with mounting swapped over for £75 and spins up lovely.
The 16 x 6mm set screws not much fun. It took a 10mm Cobalt drill on 3 to remove. Tried all tricks of trade and they were not coming out. Diligent use of magnet to remove swarf..
Vaccumm hoses a joy on intake as you mention..
Did knock sensors while in there and couple of hoses.
In last 500 miles cambelt, oils, thermostat, electronic throttle body and throttle position sensor done and no error lights (today).
Wonder whats next

On another subject car has more than usual 3200 'hunting' on tickover. Any known cures for this?
Many thanks.

 

[Contigo]

Usually leaky injectors, vacuum leak or stuck air-con pressure switch and maybe even a contactless throttle body. They all hunt on cold start until a minute or so after running.

 

[Contigo]

Phil, many thanks for reply. Read the article written when you replaced your starter and got on and did mine. Took it to JustAlternatorsandStarters in Botley (recommended) and bench tested motor on test rig. Smoke coming out... On strip down magnets were off. New starter with mounting swapped over for £75 and spins up lovely.
The 16 x 6mm set screws not much fun. It took a 10mm Cobalt drill on 3 to remove. Tried all tricks of trade and they were not coming out. Diligent use of magnet to remove swarf..
Vaccumm hoses a joy on intake as you mention..
Did knock sensors while in there and couple of hoses.
In last 500 miles cambelt, oils, thermostat, electronic throttle body and throttle position sensor done and no error lights (today).
Wonder whats next

On another subject car has more than usual 3200 'hunting' on tickover. Any known cures for this?
Many thanks.

For £70 you should have bought the equivalent Valeo motor which is a much better part than the original one fitted OEM. It start so much quicker and the magnets will not fall apart in the future.

 

[R3TRO]

Oh well - next time Valeo. Set screws will come out easier too and inside of 'V' squeaky clean..Repair shop tried to replace with 'caged' magnets. Mike at M Shed said it was about 50/50 failure between Hella/Valeo. Main thing is back driving and loving it, smiles re-instated and it's a vast improvement on pre stuck starter. Getting there slowly on this learning curve TLC project.

 

[Boomerang_GT]

Well, the problem is that Valeo is the oem brand and its known to be a pile of ****.
Starter motors don't fail at 60.000km. My Bosch on my Audi works after 450.000km without problems. But I had 2 Valeo alternators replaced at 320.000km. Costs 600€! After that I bought a Bosch equivalent with unknown mileage, used for 50€. Works without problems after another 120.000. Valeo is just compressed poo...