Advice Please - Notice of Intended Prosecution - M1 Southbound Midnight - Variable Speed Limit

[rockits]

Just got my first of these things ever and it all seems a little harsh to me. Anyone had one similar and have opposed it?

I had left home at 5.30am to drive to Leeds to do a job on Weds 1st Aug last week. Nice drive up the A1 as I'm not far from A1. Took 3 hours and 15 mins with a 15 mins stop. Left Leeds after a nice successful days work at 9pm. Decided to go down M1 home as more services/stopping points and a bit safer (so I thought!) as mainly 3-4 lanes. Also less dark areas etc. so all good starting off. Unbeknown to me there was to be a ton of roadworks and a myriad of variable speed limits contraflows and all sorts. End up taking me 4 hours to get home with less traffic than there was driving up the A1 earlier that morning. However I'm no rush so take it easy and I get home whatever time it takes.

Starts to get very confusing with Lanes 1-3 closed then 40mph contraflow along 4th lane. Then national speed limit/70mph for a bit. Then more roadworks coming up so 70mph to 60mph then 50mph, then 70mph. Then they close Lanes 22-4 and contraflow down Lane 1. Goes on like this for many miles of roadworks, then none, then roadworks, then none etc. All the time there are a ton of lorries, cars going past me, me going past slow cars/lorries. Flashing lights everywhere with massive bright flood lights for some areas. Tons of traffic with bright headlights coming the other way. All very difficult to keep in the right lane, not crash, keep at the right speed to the ever changing variable limits.

I am doing about 60mph through variable 60mph overhead gantry sign, then 60mph again through another then a car comes flying passed me and jumps on his brakes a bit. I get to the next gantry sign and it is suddenly 50mph so I start to ease off my speed to get down to somewhere near 50mph but too late. As I go through the first 50mph overhead gantry sign I get flashed. A little annoying as it is hard to see what the sign says in advanced to reduce the speed before you hit the camera. The first 50mph camera is in the gantry so it doesn't really give you any warning to slow your speed in advanced of the camera at all. A few yards after the camera I have slowed enough and am at roughly 50mph now before I hit the next 50mph then I'm OK. Then it is 40mph through contraflow then 70mph national speed limit as you come out again. This must have continued for 10 junctions it seemed.

I had just invested in a cheap dashcam after a little recent incident where some idiot decided on purpose to jump on the brakes to a stop imeediately after leaving a red to green light. Currently all being investigated it looks as though it is one of these crash on purpose, whiplash, cash claim things. Anyway I had the new dashcam that day so have all the footage of the drive back. It is midnight on a main motorway that would normally would be fairly quiet and safe. The constant roadworks and variable speed limits with flashing lights and floodlights makes it utterly confusing and downright dangerous in my opinion. Without the roadworks or with better planning and smoother flow there are no issues. Instead we have chaos and confusion. Also I get a ticket when I am not driving silly and not doing too much wrong really.

For anyone interested the footage of this bit is here:
Dashcam Footage

Sorry for the audio....you might want to turn it down or off! Not sure what I was listening to or what radio station. Just wanted something soothing and relaxing

My question is if anyone has had a similar incident? Or any advice or help as to if I should pay the fine and take the points or do the Speed Awareness Course? Or oppose the situation as it seems a little unfair, dangerous and gives no real time to adjust your speed safely. Surely it can;t be a good thing to jump on your brakes to wipe off circa 10mph in a few yards. Should you not be given until the next gantry to have adjust your speed or 30 secs to safely do so?

Anyone know if there are any rules, regulations or practices around any of this?

Thanks in advanced all or any of you hopefully wiser more experienced heads.

 

[rockits]

BTW excuse my temp middle lane hogging! My lane discipline is normally exemplary and this is a short isolated lapse. Just didn't like being on the inside lane through all these roadworks as there were tons of cones virtually on the white line for much of this.

 

[CatmanV2]

I don't think you've got a leg to stand on, mate At least it was only <60 in a 50. I'm still waiting on the photos showing me doing 75 in a 60 :I

Good luck though

C

 

[BennyD]

I feel your pain. I’m sometimes convinced they f*ck around with speed limits just to confuse people and then catch them out. You could plead guilty with mitigation and show the beaks your dash cam footage; they may agree the speed limit changes were excessive.

 

[rockits]

I don't think you've got a leg to stand on, mate At least it was only <60 in a 50. I'm still waiting on the photos showing me doing 75 in a 60 :I

Good luck though

C

Thanks C. I was expecting most to kind of agree I'm in the wrong and to take it on the chin. Obviously another stealth tax as we all know. Not quiet a safety issue. Doing the chuffing roadworks was causing more danger for sure. Funny thing was one of the few junctions there were now roadworks I hit a ruddy great hole in the road!

Allegedly I was doing 64.

 

[rockits]

I feel your pain. I’m sometimes convinced they f*ck around with speed limits just to confuse people and then catch them out. You could plead guilty with mitigation and show the beaks your dash cam footage; they may agree the speed limit changes were excessive.

Cheers Ben.....I am sure they do too. At midnight with all the sh1t that was going on and around the road it is hard enough to keep a car on the road and not crash. Let alone make sure you are running at the right speeds through various multiple changes in speeds suddenly.

Why don't they have a speed limit sign a few hundred yards before the actual speed trap to actually give you half a chance of slowing down safely. This is all about road safety and reducing road accidents of course after all...right?!

 

[CatmanV2]

Thanks C. I was expecting most to kind of agree I'm in the wrong and to take it on the chin. Obviously another stealth tax as we all know. Not quiet a safety issue. Doing the chuffing roadworks was causing more danger for sure. Funny thing was one of the few junctions there were now roadworks I hit a ruddy great hole in the road!

Allegedly I was doing 64.

It's no win I fear

C

 

[hashluck]

If you have the speed awareness option, just do it and take it on the chin. But I agree with your comments on the roadworks and signage

 

[allandwf]

Just pay it and move on. By the time you take your time, and effort, into account debating it, you could probably have paid it twice.

 

[rockits]

What is better or worse from an insurance companies eyes to take a speed awareness course or take points/fine? I have heard some people say the points come off never to be seen again after 5 years but the speed awareness course requires divulging forever. Not sure what to believe.

I expect it to be £100 fine and 3 points or SAC.

 

[Zep]

It is my understanding that when the displayed speed limit is changed it has to have been in place for 5 minutes before they can start issuing tickets. If you can show that the sign changed only moments before your contravention then they might have to re-consider. Sadly I don't think your footage will help.

 

[Zep]

What is better or worse from an insurance companies eyes to take a speed awareness course or take points/fine? I have heard some people say the points come off never to be seen again after 5 years but the speed awareness course requires divulging forever. Not sure what to believe.

I expect it to be £100 fine and 3 points or SAC.

I have never been asked about speed awareness courses by my insurance. The only real downside is sitting in a room for 4 hours.

 

[2b1ask1]

Its all about the money, the motorist is a soft target and I don’t think I’m cynical but yes it is common practice on ‘smart motorways’ to go 70, 60, 60, 60, 50, 60, 60, 50, 50, 40, 70 when there is no traffic or hazards in the road, how is that not entrapment?

Doubt arguing it will get you anywhere though.

 

[rockits]

Thanks all. I've only ever had 3 points for speeding when I was 17 just after passing my test. Never had anything for 28 years so a shame to get this one. Although technically I was still 4mph over the 60mph limit I was supposed to be adhering to.

Hard to keep a nigh on 500bhp vehicle tickling along at 60mph with little variables let alone 50 or 40mph. Nearly at tickover at those speeds.

 

[rockits]

Its all about the money, the motorist is a soft target and I don’t think I’m cynical but yes it is common practice on ‘smart motorways’ to go 70, 60, 60, 60, 50, 60, 60, 50, 50, 40, 70 when there is no traffic or hazards in the road, how is that not entrapment?

Doubt arguing it will get you anywhere though.

I tend to agree. I am all for making things smarter and safer. I am not sure the current set up is doing either though and achieves very little except for confusion and a healthy bank balance for them. It is making it less safe IMHO. Maybe tackling the terrible lane discipline would be a better use of resources that would improve safety and also improve traffic flow.

 

[mjheathcote]

It is my understanding that when the displayed speed limit is changed it has to have been in place for 5 minutes before they can start issuing tickets. If you can show that the sign changed only moments before your contravention then they might have to re-consider. Sadly I don't think your footage will help.

I recall this on my last (and only) speed awareness course, however not as long as 5 minutes though, but time for approaching traffic to slow without jumping on their brakes as soon as the speed limit is displayed/changed.

 

[Zep]

I recall this on my last (and only) speed awareness course, however not as long as 5 minutes though, but time for approaching traffic to slow without jumping on their brakes as soon as the speed limit is displayed/changed.

Yes - not as long as that. It seems this is the answer

(3) In relation to a vehicle, the speed limit indicated by a speed limit sign is the speed shown at the time the vehicle passes the sign, or, if higher, the speed limit shown by the sign ten seconds before the vehicle passed the sign.

 

[rockits]

I'm not sure the 3rd sign in the series changed as I approached it. The 1st was 60 the 2nd 60 and the 3rd 50 but you don't see the 3rd until you are getting close to it. There was enough time for me to stab the brakes quickly to wipe off 10mph suddenly but to ease off gently wouldn't have done the trick....as I found out.

 

[alfatwo]

Thanks all. I've only ever had 3 points for speeding when I was 17 just after passing my test. Never had anything for 28 years so a shame to get this one. Although technically I was still 4mph over the 60mph limit I was supposed to be adhering to.

Hard to keep a nigh on 500bhp vehicle tickling along at 60mph with little variables let alone 50 or 40mph. Nearly at tickover at those speeds.[/QUOTE

That's another reason why V8's are getting the boot, you don't need 500hp to do 50/60mph!

Dave

 

[Wack61]

Hard to keep a nigh on 500bhp vehicle tickling along at 60mph with little variables let alone 50 or 40mph. Nearly at tickover at those speeds.

I wouldn't use that as a defence

At 25s the car overtaking starts to brake so I'd say he saw the 50 then, it's 15s after that you go under the gantry so I wouldn't let them see that footage either

It does look like a BS drop in speed though as the road doesn't look any more congested there, as Newton says, I've been on a few where the speed has been changed far too often, use WAZE , it tells you which ones have the cameras on