F1 pump explained and how to

lozcb

Member
Messages
12,292
F1 pump explained and how to

You will first notice when your F1 pump is on its way out by the occasional appearance of your cc light on the dash , the occasional popping out of 1st/2nd back to neutral , initially this can be overcome by battery resets BUT it is a sign that either the relay or the pump is on its way out ,

Do take this seriously , and change the relay straight away, this just may give you a new lease of life on the pump, and prevent some major expense and inconvenience.

What tends to happen with this set up , is the relay tends to start sticking in the on position more often than not when you have turned the car off , the pump is only supposed to come on for short periods of a few seconds just to re-pressurise the gearbox change , even whilst driving , The extended running of the pump tends to burn out the motor side of the pump , which will render it dead and you stranded probably in the most inconvenient of situations

Firstly you can get the pump refurbished at a cost of £167.00 plus vat at this place

Multi truck Ltd Mount Farm Industrial est Milton Keynes
Manager Andy Cambell
Workshop Kenny

They will refurb your pump and it will come back like new

Alternatively the Alfa selespeed pump is identical ive given comparisons so take your choice


Alfa Selespeed F1 pump Part no 51736315 £ 319.26 plus vat

Maserati old style F1 pump Part no 178757 was £ 950.00 plus vat
Maserati Updated F1 pump Part No. 213264 new superceeded £1223.07 plus vat


Relay comparison

Maserati F1 pump relay part number 155437 £ 32.70 Plus Vat
Alfa relay part number 11130287 £ 8.50 Inc Vat

So you can see there is quite a saving to be made but please note the alfa pump price is for the earlier Maserati Pump the same one you have probably taken out, Maserati have recently superceeded their pump and the price now at £1223 and that's a Eurospares price so dealers are probably dearer hope this helps

Depending on how dexterous or daring you are , you may want to tackle this job yourself , providing you have a reasonable tool kit , its not rocket science to do , just apply as much logic as you normally would when working underneath the car


Tools Needed Heaps of tenacity
Knuckle protectors
Good Jack/Ramp or Garage pit
10mm socket and or spanner
12mm spanner
17mm spanner

My advice is after lifting car up

Remove exhaust bracing bracket for more working room ony 4 12mm bolts
Undo Cable retaining clip bolt on side of resevoir
Remove the hydraulic feed pipes from the bottom of the pump
Remove the 3 10mm nuts that hold the resevoir to the pump
Remove the 3 10mm long nuts that hold the pump to the gearbox
(the top one is the trickiest)

Now this is how i reckon the dealers do it with out dropping the gearbox the power cable connector is right at the very top of the gearbox on the opposite side , only access is to either drop the box... long and too technical for me i removed the boot carpets and the fibreglass spare wheel holder about ten 10mm nuts and then just behind the aluminium heat protector you can nicely get at the connecor and have excellent aceess to refill the hydraulic resevoir once new pump is fitted

To refit the new pump just reverse the order hopes this helps and saves a few bob in the process


If you haven't already now is the time to replace the F1 pump relay as this is really what caused the problem in the first place

One thing to note , if you are replacing the F1 pump with the new uprated style pump £1223.00 , not 100% sure but the fuse and relay rating is increased to 50amp hopefully Alfa will be following shortly with the uprated pump and
a greatly deflated price one can only wish



Regards loz
 

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lozcb

Member
Messages
12,292
Just so we can now be 100% sure that the selespeed pump works fine , there are now several cars running around with the pumps and working fine



regards loz
 

lozcb

Member
Messages
12,292
True Peter , then it only did 0-60 in 3 days thats if you ever took it that fast


regards loz
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
Arg, the old Ford TinCorner, grew up in a 2L Daytona Yellow Mk2 GTS, not bad considering its Yank underpinnings, oh happy days!

I remember somewhen in the very early 80's my dad got up to 100mph in it, it was quite an event (and a struggle) how things have changed.
 

urbanmaser

Member
Messages
2,908
I was told by HR Owen that in many instances the pump can run when the car is on the move and the trouble being you are unlikely to hear it above engine and exhaust noise let alone if you have the stereo blarring away
 

jpmondalek

Junior Member
Messages
376
Loz, where do you usually get the Alfa relay from? Any good sites?

Did a couple Google searches with little luck.

Thanks!
 

jpmondalek

Junior Member
Messages
376
Thanks! I called and David knew exactly what I was talking about...Loz, you are a celeb!

Maybe if you are free you can take a photo for us dummies, so we know what to yank out of the battery compartment? :)
 
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Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
Great stuff as always Loz.....can make a huge difference to the owners of the older cars to keep them on the road and viable......plus the link is very handy too!!

Do you know what improvements were made to the new pump, and why the need for uprated fuse/relay combo......the later seems a little strange!


Thanks!


P
 
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lozcb

Member
Messages
12,292
Great stuff as always Loz.....can make a huge difference to the owners of the older cars to keep them on the road and viable......plus the link is very handy too!!

Do you know what improvements were made to the new pump, and why the need for uprated fuse/relay combo......the later seems a little strange!


Thanks!





P

I think the motor and brushes were upgraded , generally beefed up the inner workings oh and by the way , picture of the relay and its fuses are now on the how to

regards loz
 

Dhanj

Junior Member
Messages
408
F1 pump explained and how to


Alfa Selespeed F1 pump Part no 51736315 £ 319.26 plus vat

Maserati old style F1 pump Part no 178757 was £ 950.00 plus vat
Maserati Updated F1 pump Part No. 213264 new superceeded £1223.07 plus vat


Relay comparison

Maserati F1 pump relay part number 155437 £ 32.70 Plus Vat
Alfa relay part number 11130287 £ 8.50 Inc Vat

So you can see there is quite a saving to be made but please note the alfa pump price is for the earlier Maserati Pump the same one you have probably taken out, Maserati have recently superceeded their pump and the price now at £1223 and that's a Eurospares price so dealers are probably dearer hope this helps

Loz,

Just to clarify, is the Alfa relay (11130287) a replacement for the old Maserati relay (i.e. to match the old style pump - part no. 178757). If not, do you know if you can still get a hold of the old Maserati relay or equivalent?

Regards, Dhanj
 

Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
Hi Dhanj, welcome to the forum......hope we can be of help.

There was an issue of the updated F1 pump and then an up rated relay, need to be careful to match them, maybe best to check to see what pump and realy are on your car before doing any changes to the relay. An indie nearby?


P
 

Geofflyn

New Member
Messages
560
Great stuff as always Loz.....can make a huge difference to the owners of the older cars to keep them on the road and viable......plus the link is very handy too!!

Do you know what improvements were made to the new pump, and why the need for uprated fuse/relay combo......the later seems a little strange!


Thanks!


P

Hi Dhanj, welcome to the forum......hope we can be of help.

There was an issue of the updated F1 pump and then an up rated relay, need to be careful to match them, maybe best to check to see what pump and realy are on your car before doing any changes to the relay. An indie nearby?


P

Frank is there any way to check what pump and relay will be onthe car by the VIN number? Seems to me to be cheap insurance to replace the relay so wondering if I can just order from Europares in safety by quoting my year of car.
Cheers
Geoff
 

Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
Only if you're sure its on its original pump...then you'd be certain the relay would be correct.


P
 

urbanmaser

Member
Messages
2,908
Just a word of warning that some Maserati dealers are using a relay replacement which originated from a Lancia. I had one fitted and it caused all manner of problems and reverted back to the original Maserati relay. I may just have been unlucky but would advise to only use Maserati/ Alfa Romeo relay only
 

Dhanj

Junior Member
Messages
408
Hi Dhanj, welcome to the forum......hope we can be of help.

P

Parisien, many thanks for the warm welcome. Always nice to hear a friendly voice at times of adversity :)

Just to clarify, I have an early QP5 (2004 to be precise). I have recently been victim of the dreaded 'Transmission failure' on the CC followed by the inability to select gear. It has been intermittent, occasionally coming back after restarting the car straight away or switching off, letting the car sit and start up again after 10-15 mins. I've let a main dealer have a look at the car and do some diagnostics but as usual they are giving little away and just proposing changing the F1 Pump and relay (which is a couple of grand).

Bizzarely I was told today by a main dealer in London that there is no 'new' F1 pump relay for my car although he seemed to indicate that the F1 Pump would be upgraded to a newer version if replaced by them . Of course I am taking all this with a pinch of salt for now. It may of course be the case that my car was an 'inbetween' in that they upgraded the relay but hadn't got around to the pump yet! Nothing surprises me when it comes to these Italians!

Will do some more digging. Without dismantling the car to take the pump out, it has been somewhat difficult to ascertain exactly which pump is fitted to the car (Eurospares web-site seems to indicate an F1 pump upgrade at least but there isn't much clarity as regards the relay). As soon as I get the car back (tomorrow hopefully), I'll inspect the relay for myself and try and gauge what's what. If there are any other QP5 owners out there that have a 2004/2005 car and know definitively, I would love to hear from you.

Thanks, D
 

Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
D, sorry to hear of your troubles re the transmission issue.

Have you thought of using an indie to sort things out for you, part of London you're in?

The F1 pump is the same as the Alfa one ( will await clarity on this as the same pump fits the 4200/GS...assuming its ths same on this version of the QP) costing a whole lot less but its not the up-dated version though, will link it for you, you can still trailer it from the dealer to an indie who will cost a lot less and be as good as if not better than an MD.


P
 
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