Italian engineering pt 2 - JTD problem ALERT!!!

[Paco]

So having dropped in the 159 to get a service and the sawn through A/C pipes looked at we have a new problem!!!

On the JTD the intake butterflies are opened by a linkage using a cup and ball socket to locate it. The ball has broken off the end butterfly and as a result the linkage has fallen off and no longer moves the butterflies.

Luckily this happened while the butterflies were "open", if "closed" I would be stranded. They could of course close at any minute....

So a little cup and ball socket on a butterfly, no big deal surely?? Oh yes!!!

In the accountant's wisdom each butterfly and ball connector are made of one piece of plastic - which is why it broke - and the inlet manifold comes with the butterflies pre-fitted!!! (exactly how I have no idea...) So I have to buy an entire inlet manifold, and half the engine bay has to be dismantled to replace a teeny little ball and socket linkage!!!

The guy I use has seen it happen on lots of Saabs (same lump) and had one in so he could show me a new inlet manifold. They have investigated an engineering solution but have yet to get the cost low enough. The engine still has to be stripped to get the old one out so I can see his point.

A new manifold is £350 for a Saab - be interesting to see how much Alfa charge for the same part. Labour will be umpteen hours I guess but there we go - the joys of leggy cars!

At least they were very complimentary about the car's condition at 128k - one wheel bearing getting noisy and a lower ball joint was all the wear and tear they could comment on.

SO - IF LOOKING AT A JTD - whip off the plastic engine cover and look down into where all the injectors are, you'll see the linkage I mean, and if it isn't all connected you have a £500+ bill on the way!!!! Expect this on "cheap" leggy 159's.

 

[lozcb]

Sounds like one for my chap who has his own engineering shop down in Leighton Buzzard , old boy old school motobike enthusiast , wife died unfortunately but you get my drift , which is why he still works at 70 years of age, he loves little problems like that Paco , a real challenge and gives him ample oppurtunity to moan and grumble about todays standards of manufacturing , if he spent all day sorting a solution he would feel guilty charging £50 for it , just my sort of chap shame your not nearer


regards loz

 

[Paco]

I know just the type Loz, great guys when there's a problem like this. My brother has an old Norton in the South of France and was struggling to find the right threaded nuts for something on it - a morning on the phone to every fastening supplier in the UK was no good, I stopped by at a modern bike mechanic who sent me around to his mates home. 3 old boys sipping tea in a double garage full of Nortons and Ariels, 3 mins later I had a pocket ful of nuts nad bolts and struggled to get them to take a fiver!!! It cost more to post them to France!!!

I'll have another chat with my guy and see if maybe I can keep the old inlet manifold. Looking at it quickly last night I couldn't see how the butterflies were installed, let alone how you get them out again!! It must be possible though, so you'd think that someone could degrease (they are always disgusting inside apparently) remove the placcy butterflies and replace with an engineered set for less than £350 (assuming you could knock up a run of them to keep costs down). Labour is labour but at least you wouldn't have to take off the whole manifold next time.

I can see someone working it out - how many JTD lumps are out there after all?? Millions I should think! A quick email to taxi fleet managers ;o)

 

[lozcb]

I know just the type Loz, great guys when there's a problem like this. My brother has an old Norton in the South of France and was struggling to find the right threaded nuts for something on it - a morning on the phone to every fastening supplier in the UK was no good, I stopped by at a modern bike mechanic who sent me around to his mates home. 3 old boys sipping tea in a double garage full of Nortons and Ariels, 3 mins later I had a pocket ful of nuts nad bolts and struggled to get them to take a fiver!!! It cost more to post them to France!!!

I'll have another chat with my guy and see if maybe I can keep the old inlet manifold. Looking at it quickly last night I couldn't see how the butterflies were installed, let alone how you get them out again!! It must be possible though, so you'd think that someone could degrease (they are always disgusting inside apparently) remove the placcy butterflies and replace with an engineered set for less than £350 (assuming you could knock up a run of them to keep costs down). Labour is labour but at least you wouldn't have to take off the whole manifold next time.

I can see someone working it out - how many JTD lumps are out there after all?? Millions I should think! A quick email to taxi fleet managers ;o)

There's a very well known alfa specialist in Bedford , cant think of their name but Matts heard of them , they must have come across this before and must have a known fix , i'll try and give em a ring if i can find their details


regards loz

 

[MAF260]

The company is Autolusso (who recently fixed an issue with my GT and will be fitting my Q2 soon)

http://www.autolusso.co.uk/new/

 

[lozcb]

Just spoke to them Paco , his words absolute F...king pain in the arrse mate , no known cheap fix new inlet manifold , been trying for years to get something adapted sorted but to no avail , best of luck by im busy and put the phone down hehehehe what can i say good luck paco


regards loz

 

[dem maser]

autolusso very good....i had a service there with my v6 years ago....

 

[Paco]

Ha ha!! Cheers Loz you're a star, I trust the guys where the car is totally, so much I even bought a car from them last year and I STILL talk to them!!!

Alltecnique in Salisbury if anyone's interested, they set up when the main agent they used to work at closed and are flat out busy!

Good guys and always keen to find a cost effective solution, like the throttle body failure on our Saab - £300 new "but we keep every used one we break, try one for £60 it could last you the life of the car".

Might need to take a manifold to a larger firm or manufacturer - China maybe? Do a run of 50,000 and I'll take a tenner's margin in each one, should keep me in Pork pies in to my dotage !!

 

[dem maser]

what are their labour rates like paco??

 

[Paco]

There is a variety of menu based stuff here: http://www.alltecnique.co.uk/service-alfa.htm

Off the top of my head I don't know what their hourly rate is, every job has been priced in advance and I've never had cause to question a bill. That I haven't calculated the hourly rate kind of speaks volumes Dem!!

Plus a free courtesy car, lots of free advice, and canny knowledge - eg my apparently boken seat belt buckle that wouldn't fasten? "i'll get my magnet....." cue puzzled look from me... and 30 secs later one paperclip, and one working seat belt. I was ready to order a replacement!!

I've recommended friends and family to them, who all report very favourably.

ETA and they work on anything - it's an engineer's approach, not a component fitters - there's an early ur-quattro undergoing restoration in there at the moment, couldn't be more different to a 159 diesel if it tried!

 

[dem maser]

you dont know the hourly rate is a good thing....