Suspension fettling options

[FIFTY]

I have noticed corrosion on my suspension springs particularly on the rears so I am thinking to change them and do some restoration work (rust removal) inside the wheel arches over autumn/winter/spring

A set of new OEM springs is £315 from ES currently, the H&R lowering springs are £450 and the FD sport springs £912...

Since we have height adjustable suspension it is possible to lower the car with the OEM springs - if I understand this correctly the spring rate will be altered by doing this (compressing the spring further) - while the H&R springs are shorter therefore lowering the car but keeping the spring rate as intended by the manufacturer hence lowering the car but keeping an OEM feel. While the FD springs are shorter therefore lowering the car but are tuned for better handling/firmer... correct me if I am wrong

Final option is coilovers - KW V3s are £2500 and even if I install them myself then it needs to be set up by someone who knows what they are doing and I understand it is a bit of a black art - things could get quite expensive in case the set up does not come out right first, second or third time... I am not sure if it is worth the investment/hassle but if my skyhook shocks start failing then it might cost about the same (£4K for 4no new skyhook shocks!)... other downside is the car will loose the sports adjustable suspension however the idea is that you get one suspension setting that is better than comfort or sports.. after all these cars are over sprung and under dampened

 

[Corranga]

Yes, you can lower the car as it is with the correct sized C spanner, though I only got as far as buying the C spanner, and didn't lower.

I think someone said the bolts are often a pita to move, and can crack or something? I'd imagine you want to relieve tension from them when lowering and obviously get a wheel alignment done afterwards.
I believe the face lift 4200 (maybe the normal one too?) has the same springs as a GranSport and sits higher in standard setup which perhaps indicates how much Maserati thought the ride height changing affected the spring rate.
With that said, obviously lowering without changing the springs in this case would end up with an OEM like feel, just a GranSport OEM feel rather than a 4200 (albiet, probably still better riding due to the smaller wheels, and arguably better handling due to less unsprung mass - assuming the smaller wheels weigh less...)
I suspect in reality the difference would be so marginal that the chances are you might not even notice...

 

[FIFTY]

Yes well I want to replace the springs entirely as they are rusted so I would have to pick up some spring compressors to get them out safely. If it is all coming off I might as well lower it slightly so it does not look so much like its on stilts lol.

The H&R ones are twigging my curiosity as they are only a touch more expensive than the standards. When reading reviews for other cars they said that it does not make a difference in terms of handling but reading on ML about the GranTourismo version reviews say that it decreased squat and roll without compromising comfort too much - I believe @Caldy999 has fitted these and is very happy with the result

Which bolts are a PITA? I found the step-by-step last night it all seems quite straight forward. I just bought a good cordless impact wrench which should be able to get the job done. In case you are wondering if you can have a copy it is on this google drive link: https://drive.google.com/drive/fold...WEtYTE3My00Y2EzLWI2OWMtNGQ0NWE3NTFlODhk?hl=en

 

[Corranga]

...don't know why I said bolts - that's what I get for quickly posting during a break!
I meant the height adjuster nut - basically a huge nut on the shock body itself.
Part 2 in the parts diagram (optional sports version' which I assume to mean Skyhook..) in the FD manual.
I'd imagine part of it being a PITA is that you have to do it by hand with the C spanner...

Here is a shamelessly stolen from eBay photo where you can see the threaded body and black nut I'm talking about with the recesses for the spanner:

 

[FIFTY]

Yes I can see that thread when I was cleaning out the inside of my wheel arches - I think the key to it is to clean out as much of the crud that has build up over the years in the thread and then soak it in some penetrating fluid for at least 24hrs before attempting to slacken it off. The springs will not be putting tension on the nut as I'd have it in spring compressors

 

[Corranga]

That sounds like the best plan, decent soak and clean.

If you're taking them off it might well be easier, I was looking to do it attached to the car, and from memory (and it was 2 years ago) the rears looked like they could be a touch awkward if trying to do it on the car, and they were really tight due to access. I was then worried about breaking something and having the car off the road so just left it!

 

[FIFTY]

Found the H&R springs on Larkspeed for £422 so not a lot more than the OEM version and the blurb does boast increased handling performance. https://www.larkspeed.com/shopper/i/95HR941181/Maserati-4200-Gran-Sport-H-R-Lowering-Springs

I got a little thrown by a few youtube videos I have watched reviewing the H&R springs saying that other than lowering they do not change the character of the handling - likewise I have seen several posts by FD on here or ML saying something similar about their competitors springs but I have read the contrary on Maserati installs. I think I will take the plunge with these but I would like to keep a set of OEM springs - maybe the rust on mine can be cleaned up and powder coated can't be that bad if it has not been mentioned on any MOT's...

 

[TimR]

Not sure just winding on more preload is the right way to go. It’s what McGrath suggested with my facelift, which rides pretty high ! I think it must make it more crashy, requiring more damping to control the inputs..
The internet is populated by people’s horror stories_ but I’ve read of issues with the Porsche electronic set up when people put H&R lowering springs on.. I’d take it with a pinch..
If they are the same rate as OEM, you won’t notice any change really.. Some benefits from a lower C of G perhaps.. but mostly less ground clearance, and less travel will be the result.. Is that wise on UK roads these days..? I don’t know..

 

[Gp79]

I just had mine blasted and powder coated for about £20 for the pair (don’t tell them they are off a Maserati!)
Corrosion was my main gripe and didn’t want to upgrade.

 

[jasst]

I fitted new ones to mine in the spring, the old ones were so corroded don't think they would have been able to be refurbed, as I remember they were £51 each from es, plus the dreaded and carriage, while they were off took the opportunity to lower to gransport height, as many on here have done.

 

[Masera]

My experience with the FD springs is nothing but positive, it totally transformed the look and the ride!

 

[FIFTY]

My experience with the FD springs is nothing but positive, it totally transformed the look and the ride!

How is it with ground clearance and going over speed bumps - both the sausage style ones and the small humps in the middle of the road? I guess you had a 25mm drop from stock 4200 height?

I think the "crashy-ness" from the 4200's ride is more from the dampers than the springs as they are fairly soft but I would hate to make it even worse by dialing in the springs. You are based in the US right... Could I ask which state? UK roads are really bad they are crumbling with total lack of investment from the government and they put these awful speed humps everywhere so people in Vauxhalls can launch their cars over them at 35mph (they are supposed to slow you down).

 

[Vampyrebat]

How is it with ground clearance and going over speed bumps - both the sausage style ones and the small humps in the middle of the road? I guess you had a 25mm drop from stock 4200 height?

I think the "crashy-ness" from the 4200's ride is more from the dampers than the springs as they are fairly soft but I would hate to make it even worse by dialing in the springs. You are based in the US right... Could I ask which state? UK roads are really bad they are crumbling with total lack of investment from the government and they put these awful speed humps everywhere so people in Vauxhalls can launch their cars over them at 35mph (they are supposed to slow you down).

With 'Ump-Shhh Ump-Shhh Ump-Shhh' blasting out of there Halfords special stereo unit with the window down...............Never found out what that record was

 

[TimR]

My experience with stock springs, as far as speed bumps go, is that being in sport mode is a safer option..The cars damping is uncontrolled otherwise, and I slammed the belly of the car as the hump passed under it. (Oh how I did swear ! It was the shock of how easily it happened as much as anything...! )
What Im saying is that the stronger springs may be of benefit is some respects..? I'd be less convinced by the loss of ride height personally but my drive is also a hill and grounding out isnt an option...!

 

[FIFTY]

With 'Ump-Shhh Ump-Shhh Ump-Shhh' blasting out of there Halfords special stereo unit with the window down...............Never found out what that record was

We have speed bumps all the way down our road, it is a bus route with a remote section of the university campus nearby, whenever I hear a crash sound over every speed bump it is generally a vauxhall or a van.

I think the record in question came free with a subscription of "max power" magazine

 

[Masera]

How is it with ground clearance and going over speed bumps - both the sausage style ones and the small humps in the middle of the road? I guess you had a 25mm drop from stock 4200 height?

I think the "crashy-ness" from the 4200's ride is more from the dampers than the springs as they are fairly soft but I would hate to make it even worse by dialing in the springs. You are based in the US right... Could I ask which state? UK roads are really bad they are crumbling with total lack of investment from the government and they put these awful speed humps everywhere so people in Vauxhalls can launch their cars over them at 35mph (they are supposed to slow you down).

I am in NY. Roads here are nothing to brag about, but my set up with the 25mm drop seems to working well.

 

[philgarner]

I have just had the KW's installed and fitted. Early days and I think its still a bit low but overall the ride is transformed.

The cheapest I've found them recently is just over £2k at EuroPerformance . I think they are made to order - mine came in about two weeks. Very high quality. There are instructions for turning off the error message for skyhook with an SD2 but mine still hasn't shown anything (but I was never convinced my Skyhook worked in the first place).

My originals were in poor condition cosmetically so no doubt contributed to the poor ride on my car.

I had a local motorsport place install them for me, I suspect an outfit who knew the cars would be quicker but then you need somewhere with the expertise doing the alignment and setup too, which they had. Fitting and full alignment cost me about £600. I'm going to let them settle a bit and go back for another check on the alignment (free).

 

[Chrisb2015]

KW V3’s are excellent and once setup by someone who knows what they are doing (I.e. centre gravity) will be the best performing of the lot, with the benefit of being adjustable in the future if the you fancy changing the handling characteristics.

 

[FIFTY]

Thanks for your experiences guys. Doing a little more research it is clear that any change in height using the standard or lowering springs the car will still need to be corner weighted and geometry done so there is no less complicated set up option.

Problem with the lowering springs (H&R or FD) is that you are stuck with the minimum drop (sorry I think 25mm is chancing it a bit on current UK roads) and the standard characteristics of the skyhook adjustable suspension which imo is not very good for either luxury or handling. Potentially spending a fair slug of money on parts and set up with an outcome that I may not be very happy with at all...

The elephant in the room is what if I spend the time and effort on getting new springs (standard or lowering) then one or more skyhook shocks springs a leak and fails... the additional spend could have gone on the KW's right there... 15 years old 65k miles it is only a matter of time until potential failures.

Guess I will have to save my pennies for KW V3's. I think I know what needs to be done on the SD3 to turn off the Skyhook as my car strangely came with it switched off already. It is about 2hrs labour with your indi for them to reinstall the firmware with the settings turned off.

 

[alfatwo]

Corner weighting is really a must if you start fiddling with ride heights and new springs ect

Dave