Passenger window dip function (4200)

dm2

New Member
Messages
44
Hi All

A small problem at the moment with my passenger window. Never had this happen until about 2-3 weeks ago, but now very occasionally (1 in 10 times perhaps), when closing the passenger door, the window doesn't go back up after it dips on opening.

Once it does this, no amount of opening and shutting the passenger door re-activates the window to go up automatically. However, if the door is shut, I find that I can simply close the window properly using the passenger window switch. After that, it's all ok for some period of time, but then randomly the problem comes back.

I know there is a micro-switch to detect when the door is being opened and this makes the window dip. Is there some similar sensor to detect when the door is shut? I'm not terribly worried about it - it's more of an occasional annoyance really, but I of course want to get it sorted in case it develops in to something more serious.

Cheers,
Dolo
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
Yes, very annoying. I think Loz had the same issue, and I know the previous owner of my car had it done. You are correct its a microswitch.

Loz, can you respond?
 

lozcb

Member
Messages
12,300
Hi Dolo, sort had the opposite just recently after Autoglass screwed the microswitch trying with a 9" screwdriver to clean the broken glass out of its slot , what happened the glass wouldn't drop at all so the microswitch on inspection was completely buggered , i would have thought yours is sticking , perhaps door card removal will reveal all , and a quick squirt with some switch cleaner , you can check before hand by sitting in the passenger seat and just gently pulling the door handle untill you hear it click and operate

Once the door card is off , remove the membrane in such a way so that it can be replaced take the time to french chalk the rubber seal guides that the glass travels up and down in and butts up to , this will give less resistance when reaching the end of its travel so as to enable an air tight seal

hope this helps regards loz
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
Dolo, if you do remove the door card, any chance you could do a little how to with pics?

The door card removal is one of the most commonly tackled newb jobs, so it would be great to have a step by step

Ta, Matt
 

dm2

New Member
Messages
44
Thanks guys. I'm going to be pushed to do this in the next couple of weekends, but I have previously taken off the drivers door card, so when I get round to it, sure I'll take a few snaps and post.

Cheeers, Dolo
 

k99

New Member
Messages
128
also check that the interior door handle is not sticking open slightly
I had this problem which also meant the door wasn't always locking.
Easily cured by applying some lube where the handle pivots
 

davidhowson

Junior Member
Messages
474
Hi Guys
Last week end I had to take the passenger door card off to fix the inside door handle. I have taken a load of pictures of the process which I will get round to posting!
But my question is this, is there a miscro switch or something that tells the electric window motor to stop when the glass reaches the top? Every so often, I'm getting the most alarming noise (bang! bang! bang!) like there is someone knocking on the door. Now I've checked and I can account for both wife and daughter so I know it isn't one of them that got stuck inside when I re-assembled it!
So I'm thinking it's the window winder slipping cogs trying to lift the glass even when the glass is at the top of the door. It dosen't happen often but it's goning to damage something in the process if I leave it.
Oh, and I darn't open the passenger door in case the glass falls out or other calamity!
Thanks
David
 

Emtee

New Member
Messages
8,446
I have this too but don't think it's micro-switch related in my instance as the window dips on opening the door - activation of micro-switch, and then tries to raise on closing the door, which is an activation of the (or another) micro-switch also, but the lifter mechanism hasn't got the strength to lift the glass to its fully closed position.

I assume there's a relay in the passenger footwell, as occasionally I hear it click and both windows check themselves by lifting fractionally.
Because of this I had assumed that the fully closed position is recognised by resistance, as there is no second click to indicate an electronically dictated closed position. Basically it stops when it hits the top window rubber.

As an aside, but useful for comparison, I had my passenger side lifter mechanism changed under warranty as it completely failed. Since replacement this window is fine and has a good 'spring in its step' when closing the door.

I am thinking three possible causes, which might be inter-ralated..

I have battery drain from my tracker. I know this and will get around to disconnecting it, but as the car is my daily the battery never gets too low to become inoperative, however my daily commute is a short one and therefore there may well be gradual drain, which could cause the window lifter mechanism to struggle on closing the car door with engine off.

I never have problems in the summer when it's predominantly dry and warm. The weather has turned wet, damp and humid, which are perfect conditions for already struggling mechanicals to start sticking.

My drivers side window rises and falls far more slowly that the replaced passenger window, which suggests either a greater resistance during the operation - poor lubrication of pivoting points, poor alignment within the runners or running against the seals more tightly? or alternatively a less effective lifter motor?

So when I do get around to it, I'll remove the door card, double-check the micro-switches and then clean and re-grease any pivoting points on the lifter mechanism. I'll also replace the outer window sealing strip at the same time just in case this is letting in more moisture than it should and make sure the glass is running in its tracks as it should. If this has no effect, then I'll assume it's the motor and I'll replace the lifter mechanism, for which I believe there's an Alfa alternative.
 

JAGPURR

New Member
Messages
91
Hi,
Not sure if this helps. The door locks have two microswitches the first one to sense initial opening, this signals the window controller to drop the glass untill the microswitch on the window mechanism tells it to stop. The second switch on the door tells various controllers that the door is completely open. On closing the first microswitch on the lock again signals the window controler to raise the glass. The amount it raises is that what it memorised when dropping to reach the mechanism microswitch.
If the glass drops all the way without stopping this usually means the microswitch on the window mechanism is goosed or requires re adjusting.
If the glass does't drop at all this usually means the first microswitch on the door lock isn't telling the controller the door is starting to open ie. a goosed switch or just dirt making it stick.
Now if the glass drops correctly but doesn't return either the first microswitch is not returning when the door is closed due to dirt or similar ( a bit strange as it operated to tell the window to drop ), or the controller isn't memorising the glass movement. This can usually be sorted by going through the window resetting procedure. This is listed elswere I'm sure if you can't find it I'll try to dig it out and post.
I managed to suss all this out when I first got my car and the windows seemed to do what they wanted . I traced the fault to a bent microswitch leaver in the window mechanism and sorted it out for free!!

Hope that wasn't too mind boggling

Keith
 

Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
Keith........................I've had to lie down............................;)......;)


P
 

Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
I would need a diagram and a helper...to understand how to do it...............!!!!


P
 

Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
Having said that.......funniness aside....do a flow diagram.....................of the fix/reset?

P
 

Easyplan66

New Member
Messages
3,358
I would very very interested in the window resetting procedure as I think that is what mine needs
 

davidhowson

Junior Member
Messages
474
I have pulled the door apart again and I have found the third micro switch that tells the system how to regulate the window drop and when to stop pushing the glass up.
It's behind a bit of black tape covering a hole in the inner door skin and it's located at the "four o'clock" position from the door air bag. You can see the inner door handle micro switch just to the left of the chrome handel too - this tells the system to drop the window before the door opens.

The three pictures show the location and the window dipped and window closed position of the micro switch.

The actual problem with my window is that a joint has come apart on the window winder / regulator mechanical bit so the whole thing needs to come out and be replaced / fixed.

-David-
 

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Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
David......excellent.....seems there are micro-switches all over the show........!

Hope its not too hard to fix and all goes back together....with no screws left over!


P
 

JAGPURR

New Member
Messages
91
Yep, thats the third microswitch I was refering to on the winder mechanism. There is almost no adjustment on the aluminium piece that operates it so normally if it is not operating the switch fully you need to bend the arm with the little roller on slightly. Be very carefull ! not to overdo it as next time it goes bown and up the rollerarm can catch on the bottom of the bracket and bend right back or even snap off. Then you will have to buy a new switch which wont cost much, but removing the mechanism, drilling out the rivets and replacing the switch is a bit of a chore to say the least.
Been trying to locate that recalibration procedure for the control box withut any luck, if anyone out there has it please post.
Keith
 

davidhowson

Junior Member
Messages
474
Has anyone here actually replaced the window mechanism? Any tips other than take it to a garage?
Regards
David