Considering a Maserati - 3200, 4200 or Gransport

As the title. Weekend car is a Porsche 996 Turbo used around 3k miles per annum. Always wanted an Italian stable mate for the Porsche (which is a keeper).

Three years back considered a 360. But with prices the way they are, I honestly don't think they are worth the silly money being asked.
Had an inkling for a Maserati. First thoughts after seeing a couple was Gran Tourism. But advice seems to suggest a better alternative might be a Transport given that the GT might be a little under-whelming after a 996 Turbo, a heavy car too that doesn't like not being driven much (I expect to do around 4-5k miles between the Porsche and the Maser per annum).

So I started to look at Gransport examples on the internet. The going rate for 2004-2006 examples seems to be low low-mid £30k. Are these at the bottom of the depreciation curve at these prices or is there more depreciation to be had at these prices?

Going back in time to around 2002 seems to have a maser inside £20k with a 4200 and the added bonus of a manual box which I love.
I searched high and low for the Turbo with a manual box as there are more tiptronic auto box 996 turbo cars out there.

Is it really added-value to spend £32k-£34k on a Gransport which comes only with the F1 shifter versus £15k-£20k for a 4200 Coupe that can be had with manual box? I appreciate the extra maintenance on the 4200 with cam belt changes. But is there that much of a difference between the models? t5he canbicorsa box? I hear tales of "brittle as glsss" and shocking clutch life with high cost oaf clutch change when needed (the Porsche clutch is around £1200 fitted inch VAT but lasts ages if not abused - typically 60k miles).

How is the annual servicing costs for these cars? And long term reliability? German owners always knock Italian stuff on build quality and poor reliability with astronomical maintenance costs.

Any inputs to help me will be appreciated. I would only buy with a thorough PPI. Research shows nearest Indy to me is Autotech in Manchester and prestige dealer is Richard Grace in Chester. But a quick chat with him confirms he has the cars inspected by Autotech so is it better to have a car inspected from his stock elsewhere, and if so by whom?

Welcome, you are in the right place for advice all though opinions may differ.

Most on here will say the GS is the better car and certainly the prices of these are on the way up. The 3200 is the more feral with a super quick V8 turbo and little in the way of finesse, also comes with the boomerang rear lights but these cars do have an air of fragility about them and CEL warning lights are common. Once again prices seem to be firming for the better ones.

In the middle is the 4200, dry sump V8 with loads of grunt and an awesome sound. Prices vary in the mid to late teens but look out for the big service items especially clutches which can be pricey. Don't ignore the CC box it is better than most people say and personally once I was used to it I think it is much better than the 6 speed manual. CC gearbox software changed over the years with the older fast but brutal shift being replaced with softer versions, software can be upgraded but can't be downgraded so choose well first time.

I don't believe the price hike on the GS is worth the minor advantages it may have over a 4200 and as both GS & 3200 have both started to rise in prices it can't be long before the 4200 goes the same way. Save your money by a good 4200 and use the difference in fuel I guarantee the smiles per miles will be worth it.

You'll get lots of good advice from the guys here. You should get a drive in all of the models you're interested in as they are all very different. You'll also hear lots of praise for Richard Grace, who is a well respected forum member. You could do a lot worse than dealing with Richard, as he's very much one of the good guys. I have a 3200 and it hasn't been anything like as bad as their reputation. Maybe because I got a good one that had been well looked after in the first place.


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You don't need to waste money on an inspection elsewhere Dicky's cars are fully sorted and of the highest quality hence his top reputation - not sure if you this example well under the low to mid £30k bracket and a stunning colour

http://www.richardgracecars.co.uk/listing/maserati-gransport-9/

Im on my third coupe, 2x4200 and now a GS over nine years and 40k in miles.

Which one js best for you will be down to you and how you intend to use it.

Happy to talk honestly about my experience if you wish.

4200 has no cam belts

C

All our preferences are different. I started out thinking either the Gsport or 4200 was for me but having driven each including the Granturismo it was clear that I was wrong. The gear change is quite different on each in terms of consistency, ability to respond and speed of change. I've yet to roll my GTourismo either.

There is a thread here on GSport pricing. There is evidence that they are now steadily climbing.

Drive each variant. They are very different.


Robin

The CC gearbox takes some (but only a little) getting used to, but once mastered, is generally viewed as better than the manual (which, as manual boxes go, isn't fantastic). The opposite of your 996, where the manual is great and tiptronic is not.

But at least with the Maser you have no engine worries. We all know that the 996 and early 997 engines are suspect (though not, thankfully, your Metzger TT version).

Manual 4200's are actually quite rare, but if you find a good example for sale, do test drive it to see if it fits your bill. But also test drive a GS, as I think you'll like it.

Don't expect either to have quite the kick of your 996, but do expect both to be more exotic and have more personality. And don't worry about running costs. If you can afford to keep a 996 TT in fine fettle, you can afford a Maser.)

Dyer3200 said:

You don't need to waste money on an inspection elsewhere Dicky's cars are fully sorted and of the highest quality hence his top reputation - not sure if you this example well under the low to mid £30k bracket and a stunning colour

http://www.richardgracecars.co.uk/listing/maserati-gransport-9/

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That car does look good, but wondered if the mileage is too high. Are these cars as mileage sensitive as Ferrari's? I was considering no more than 30k miles?

I think I've probably ruled out the 3200 on account of the reliability issues. The decision seems to be under £20k for a good 4200 V8 with the dry sump in either manual or CC or a Gran Sport which is touching £15k over and above a good 4200GT coupe car.

I'm not into a Spyder. It has to be a coupe for me.
I also noticed Nuvola gets a good mention and he has some tidy cars. I did speak to Nareman there about a 996 Turbo he was selling a few years back, but it was a Sale-Or-Return example and not in the best condition and the history didn't stack up from the owner on whose behalf he was selling it. Probably well versed on Maserati, but not Porsche and certainly not the 996 Turbo which I know inside out.

Maintenance-wise, how are these cars like (4200 Coupe and Gransport)? I have a supercar in the Porsche so I'm not looking at Ford Mondeo service costs, but anyone care to help men understand? Especially if there is any owner who has or had a Porsche Turbo or NA car of the water-cooled era (forget air cooled Porsche for this discussion - they are another ball game altogether). I believe the 4200GT and the Gran Sport both have galvanised bodies so corrosion should not be an issue (as per 996 Turbo).

I know neither of these cars can touch my Turbo which runs 450bhp and around 400+ ftlbs torque at such low rev range, but I'm wanting one for the intoxicating sound of that Italian V8 and still agile performance which is plenty on either side of speed limits. I'd also like to buy at the bottom of the depreciation curve in the Hoppe that after a few years the car will appreciate and I won't lose money on re-sale (excluding servicing and maintenance).

Insurance wise, any specialist brokers I can talk to and get an idea of insurance? Given that NCD can only be on one vehicle, year one insurance will be hefty I'm guessing as it was for the Porsche, but now I've built up NCD and protected it with a specialist broker.

A 4200 for me represents the best value. I have a facelift CC (mainly 2005 on) and a non-facelift manual (but with GS kit/alloys) & they drive very different. I love them both. The manual is not the best manual I've driven but in equal measure neither is the CC. The CC at full tilt is a great box and just as good as many newer twin clutch boxes. Just not so good at low or half throttle. However you do get used to it and learn to adapt to get it to work best for you. All the fun of it really.

However to me all that just adds character and these cars have that by the bucket load. Great to look at, own, drive, clean and talk about. If your don't want a perfect, stupid fast, teutonic or boring car your in the right place.

Just get a secondary decat and rear silencer delete with straight through rears & your sorted! What a noise....in both senses!! Beautiful noise and loud. Just how we like it.

I went for a facelift 4200 as preferred the 4200 interior to the GS's interior however I concede the GS's front seats are better. The facelift 4200 pretty much has the same front & back bumpers as the GS but without the extravagant side boards. I'm personally not a fan of the earlier Classico version although still a very similar & still fantastic car. Awesome value for money for £20k for what it gives so different to anyone thing else.

Yes I'm veering towards a 4200Coupe with a CC box (not because its what I want but in practice, manual cars are pretty rare and probably don't have the investment potential they have as a Porsche (a Turbo with manual box identical history, condition etc commands around a £3k-£5k price premium - the higher value for a box that has been sorted as it has inherent weaknesses in the manual box requiring a full strip and rebuild at around £4-5k). I don't get that sense of premium for a manual 4200 coupe. It also seems the most bang for bucks against a GS.

Where can I find a comparison of the differences between a 4200GT Coupe and a Gran Sport to help;p- decide if I think the hike in price for a GS is justified for me?

I was looking at a budget beginning with a 2 not a 3. I looked into a Merc SL55 AMG but decided against it - the auto box and the fact that I already have a Merck daily car didn't make sense to have another (3rd) german car! So it is Italian under serious consideration - the intoxicating growl of a V8 that can cross Europe on road trips across Germany and into the Swiss Lakes in its stride.

cheshiremaserati said:

That car does look good, but wondered if the mileage is too high. Are these cars as mileage sensitive as Ferrari's? I was considering no more than 30k miles?

I think I've probably ruled out the 3200 on account of the reliability issues. The decision seems to be under £20k for a good 4200 V8 with the dry sump in either manual or CC or a Gran Sport which is touching £15k over and above a good 4200GT coupe car.

I'm not into a Snyder. It has to be a coupe for me.
I also noticed Nuvola gets a good mention and he has some tidy cars. I did speak to Nareman there about a 996 Turbo he was selling a few years back, but it was a Sale-Or-Return example and not in the best condition and the history didn't stack up from the owner on whose behalf he was selling it. Probably well versed on Maserati, but not Porsche and certainly not the 996 Turbo which I know inside out.

Maintenance-wise, how are these cars like (4200 Coupe and Gransport)? I have a supercar in the Porsche so I'm not looking at Ford Mondeo service costs, but anyone care to help men understand? Especially if there is any owner who has or had a Porsche Turbo or NA car of the water-cooled era (forget air cooled Porsche for this discussion - they are another ball game altogether). I believe the 4200GT and the Gran Sport both have galvanised bodies so corrosion should not be an issue (as per 996 Turbo).

I know neither of these cars can touch my Turbo which runs 450bhp and around 400+ ftlbs torque at such low rev range, but I'm wanting one for the intoxicating sound of that Italian V8 and still agile performance which is plenty on either side of speed limits. I'd also like to buy at the bottom of the depreciation curve in the Hoppe that after a few years the car will appreciate and I won't lose money on re-sale (excluding servicing and maintenance).

Insurance wise, any specialist brokers I can talk to and get an idea of insurance? Given that NCD can only be on one vehicle, year one insurance will be hefty I'm guessing as it was for the Porsche, but now I've built up NCD and protected it with a specialist broker.

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Don't dismiss the brilliant old 3200GT either.. the stories you've heard are mostly untrue..

Whilst living with a fairly easy to drive porker, you'd find the old Maser if not careful is mostly out to try and kill you..
Fancy a challenge!

Dave

Depends on which version of the 4200 you mean.

The 4200 facelift there is very little difference.

4200 facelift has the traditional interior but has the same front and back bumpers / lower valence as the GS. It doesnt have the side surf boards of the GS and the back boxes are valved on the GS. Engine wise there is a small increase in bhp to 400 from memory on the GS. In real terms the difference in performance is down to the driver. GS Wheels are bigger on lower profile tyres and a different design and the GS sits about 15mm lower.

GS has bucket seats in the front but they were also an option on the facelift 4200 you also get the carbon trim items on the GS the centre consol being the main one and carbon fibre on the steering wheel. You could also have the GS steering wheel as an option on the facelift 4200.

If your looking at a facelift from the front or the rear then the only difference you would spot is the exhaust tips.

If you want the more traditional interior then go 4200 and save yourself around 6 plus k against the price of a GS.

The other thing to note with the GS cars are the interior can either be part leather and centre seat and dash sections in tek cloth or full leather which is on the LE spec cars but could also be specified on the non LE cars.

Manual box was available on the 4200 as an option but flappy paddles only on the GS. Flappy paddle gearbox software was slightly different on the GS against the 4200 facelift gearbox software.

If your around Cheshire and thinking of going to Oulton park on monday then my 4200 facelift will be there and there is usually a GS or two as well.

There isn't much difference mechanically between a facelift 4200 & the GS at all. Gearbox & TCU seems to be the same or virtually identical. Suspension is slight dropped by 10mm & 15mm. Valved exhaust system on GS and slight rework giving 10bhp more over 4200. Mainly cosmetic.

The manuals have normally been cheaper historically than a CC as tend to be less sought after but last year I have seen some manuals attempt to sell for more than previous years. Doesn't mean they sold at all or for that price though. Maybe the rarity is starting to push values a bit on manuals now but not much.

I had an R129 SL60 a few years back then more recently an R230 SL55, then an S211 E55 Estate and still have an R129 SL500. A bad SL55 can be quite ruinous like all cars of this type. The SL55 is a decent GT but no sports car. Mechanical grip was poor as that AMG has too much torque. The E55 was tons better even though it has the same engine. Mainly I think because of more weight over back axle so mechanical grip was much better.

I had the same choice when I bought my 1st 4200 as to what to choose out of 4200 or GS. I narrowed it down to facelift 4200 or GS as prefer the newer style front/back facelift bumpers also the bigger front grille. However I didn't like the GS interior so settled on the facelift 4200.

It took me a year to find mine but found a 1 owner from new 11k miles immaculate as new example & although it was well over my £20k budget thought it was worth buying the best I could find. Many are not many that good so I pushed the boat out.

I personally don't think the GS is worth the £5k+ premium over an equivalent 4200 but many disagree and many agree. I have been through a ton of cars to settle in the happy place with a facelift 4200. I can't see me ever selling the 1st one as there is nothing to replace it with at that price point.

You should be able to find a nice facelift 4200 for £20k though.

Quattroporte's are cracking value for money now & later 2007 ZF autos are starting to dip under £20k. I'm very tempted! Will be even more tempted when I sell my XJ!!

spkennyuk said:

Depends on which version of the 4200 you mean.

The 4200 facelift there is very little difference.

4200 facelift has the traditional interior but has the same front and back bumpers / lower valence as the GS. It doesnt have the side surf boards of the GS and the back boxes are valved on the GS. Engine wise there is a small increase in bhp to 400 from memory on the GS. In real terms the difference in performance is down to the driver. GS Wheels are bigger on lower profile tyres and a different design and the GS sits about 15mm lower.

GS has bucket seats in the front but they were also an option on the facelift 4200 you also get the carbon trim items on the GS the centre consol being the main one and carbon fibre on the steering wheel. You could also have the GS steering wheel as an option on the facelift 4200.

If your looking at a facelift from the front or the rear then the only difference you would spot is the exhaust tips.

If you want the more traditional interior then go 4200 and save yourself around 6 plus k against the price of a GS.

The other thing to note with the GS cars are the interior can either be part leather and centre seat and dash sections in tek cloth or full leather which is on the LE spec cars but could also be specified on the non LE cars.

Manual box was available on the 4200 as an option but flappy paddles only on the GS. Flappy paddle gearbox software was slightly different on the GS against the 4200 facelift gearbox software.

If your around Cheshire and thinking of going to Oulton park on monday then my 4200 facelift will be there and there is usually a GS or two as well.

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That is very helpful summary. Thank you. Seems not much in it at all (save for price) between facelift 4200 and GS. I normally attend Gold Cup Challenge but this year I'm currently in the US West Coast on holiday, so I won't be attending. But thanks for the offer.

The responses on here have been really quick and helpful.

rockits said:

You should be able to find a nice facelift 4200 for £20k though.

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That's what I thought. The min price for a GS is around £34k and such a hefty premium for relatively small differences versus £20k for a facelift 4200.

Are they mileage sensitive like Fezza's (try offloading a 50k mile 360 and you'll see what I mean). Facelift 4200 year was 2002?

A maserati is more of a usable car day to day than a Ferrari and as such miles are not as much of an issue. However sub 50k cars do carry a premium and more so sub 30k. But cars with very low miles can require significant recommissioning which on a GS or 4200 may be more than the price difference.

Service required every 12 months by the book esp if you want to keep its value up. In addition at certain miles there are extra items to be done.

Basic service at an indi is about £600, mileage services add another £500/600 depending on which one. Main dealers add 20%.

Basic clutch change is from £1500-2500 depending on who and where. Add 300 at second change for new flywheel. Drive carefully they can last 1%wear per 1k miles....or 20k if like a loon! ie wheel spin starts and lots of track use. GS carries a risk of clutch tang failure if driven aggressively but this occurs at about 20k or not at all, even if clutch is little worn - poss due to swifter changes....but as always there are exceptions to the rules.

Also watch iut for cracked wishbones...

I think it all depends on what you want the car for. If you want a an Italian stablemate for the Porsche at minimal cost then a 4200. If you want investment potential then a GS or a very good 3200 may do that. Free motoring you have more chance with the GS, people obviously do hanker after them and are willing to pay a premium so they should keep pace, remember it just needs one big bill to wipe out any "profit".