Subframe Overhaul problems.... Advise needed!

A very extensive GS Subframe Overhaul Project.

So I decided not to sell my car some time back and to get the underside as shiny as the top. I am removing front and rear subframes on my car to get them blasted, phosphated and powdercoated to they are nice and shiny, instead of covered surface rust.

Started this yesterday. Wish I hadn't. Ambitious job

There are many small corroded parts to replace an make things shiny again. Every bracket which was once bright zinc plated now has surface rust all over. Seems the metal platers did no more a proper job than the powder coaters at the factory. This is what will see these cars headed to the scrap heap as the labour cost to fix all this would be unjustifiable. Luckily I have a 2 post lift in a mates man cave, and I'be just broken the news the GS could be on it for 6 months!

As well as the subframes here's a list of what needs to be refurbed or replaced due to corrosion:

All the brake unions are corroded to the pipes necessitating new brake pipes all round.
Swaged ends Gearbox oil cooler pipes are badly rusted - will need to make up new pipes. Pirtek is the place to go £30 the pair instead of £150 from Eurospares.
All exhaust brackets
Even the Mikalor exhaust clamps are corroded through on the exhaust (std Larini fit I believe) and they are supposed to be stainless! I shall get Hayward and Scott to make me some proper ones.

So back to the task in hand and the difficulties I am having:

Have started at the rear, and first up I am trying to remove the transaxle. Exhaust is off, spare wheel well and heatshield are removed (only one broken stud due to corrosion) , transaxle is free of the torque tube, and the X member at the back of the transaxle is removed. Car is on a 2 post lift and the back of the transaxle is on a transmission jack. Driveshafts are disconnected from the flanges.

So the transaxle is "loose" - I've got it to move backwards about 40mm, but I cannot see how you can ever get it out of the car without lowering the subframe. The diff end has to drop to miss the body, this forces the front high so it cannot pass over the subframe. Has anyone done this who can confirm its possible?

I've moved to stripping the suspension off, so I decided to remove the outboard end of the top wishbone from the upright but I cannot get the bolt out of the upright. I've got about a 1/4" gap between the balljoint and the upright by smacking the nut on the other end, but I am doubtful this is good for the balljoint. Its not rusty, but just wont come out. It does turn if you put a spanner on the flats of the balljoint. Any tricks here?

And I cannot get the handbrake cables off where they pass through the upright, I suspect corrosion, but should they just pull out once all the shoes and mechanism on the front of the upright is removed - Again has anyone done this who can confirm?

Answers in anticpation of solutions, but I've given up for this weekend.


Thx

FA

Guy to communicate with is Craig Waterman _ thats his handle on this forum (US based)




Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Some scorn when I say I don't use mine in salty winter weather, the previous keepers never did too.
The result is a clean and corrosion free underside even though 14 years old.
Unlike the other picture that has been posted before...

Yes mines nothing as bad as that 2nd pic.

Looks like your oil cooler hoses have been meddled with - the ends should be swaged, not jubilee clips!

mjheathcote said:

Some scorn when I say I don't use mine in salty winter weather, the previous keepers never did too.
The result is a clean and corrosion free underside even though 14 years old.
Unlike the other picture that has been posted before...

Click to expand...

Fat Arnie said:

Yes mines nothing as bad as that 2nd pic.

Looks like your oil cooler hoses have been meddled with - the ends should be swaged, not jubilee clips!

Click to expand...

That is strange, on the Maserati parts diagrams they are jubilee clips!!...maybe it is a classico thing...

They are jubilee clips on my GS too. When the time comes I am going to have a cooler made with appropriate unions and hoses to suit.

As for removing the top ball joint from the upright, I did it by removing the lower joint first. This allows movement on upright which allows it to be removed.

Zep said:

As for removing the top ball joint from the upright, I did it by removing the lower joint first. This allows movement on upright which allows it to be removed.

Click to expand...

The bottom is off mine already - I can get the articulation to remove it, just the sleeve of the balljoint is stuck tight in the bush.

Best of luck Arnie..that's a hel of a lot of work on an old car!

Dave

I can't quite figure out why mine has swaged ends on the hoses then! It's not really a DIY thing. Odd...

Not really, its italian, they simply ran out of jubilee clips!

Fat Arnie said:

The bottom is off mine already - I can get the articulation to remove it, just the sleeve of the balljoint is stuck tight in the bush.

Click to expand...

I see. That is a PITA. Has it moved at all? The rod is an extension to the ball joint if you can get a hold on the nose of the ball joint itself it can be unscrewed.

Looking at it another way, if you have a lift I have seen the complete subframe, wheels and all, dropped off the bottom of the car. This was what I planned to do when I got around to doing this job.

I'm very interested to see how you get on, I plan to remove the rear sub frame on mine this winter for overhaul. The F1 pump has just given up so I can do the whole lot over a few weeks ( even with an external power supply at the pump plug the pump will not run)

No lift here, but I will do as Zep recommended, the entire rear frame off completely, then work on it off the car.

Rust will be the killer of these cars over the next few years unless you act now, the sills have been treated earlier this year and I have a brand new front subframe in the garage which I will have fitted when the clutch dies (current one rust repaired for last MOT.)
Unfortunately the front subframe is too much for me to tackle, so there will be a specialist involved.

I hope it goes well and keep the updates coming.

Must admit, I had a nose round mine when it was last up in the air a few months back. Went over it with a wire brush and stone chipped the bare bits.

It wasn't bad but and hours work and a £10 tin of spray paint and it looks really good under there now.

My brake unions and cooler where really good and again got just a wire brush and some Silver King aerosol paint then a blob of grease over the top to keep them good.

Gp79 said:

Unfortunately the front subframe is too much for me to tackle, so there will be a specialist involved.

Click to expand...

Oddly enough, to my mind the front frame is easier than the rear. Steering rack, brake unions, unplug cables, shock top mounts, squish pipes (exhaust) support the engine from above and it will drop out. Or am I missing something?

What are you having an issue with brother? The gearbox will drop out. If you need to loosen the rear subframe and let that drop down an bit more to give you room do so. Loosen all the sub-frame hex bolts, should be 3 on either side, leave the shock towers attached. Did you make sure to remove the E brake bracket directly above the gear box? It will be hard to see but if you hang up on it, it will catch the gear box so you can not push it back. If you get really frustrated, just undo the rear shock towers, and brake unions right by the front of the subframe on your passenger side, and drop the entire rear sub-frame. If you are resurfacing everything anyway this would make it easier. Just remove the gear box once you drop it. Best part of these cars is they were built to be taken apart. You can also check the clutch replacement thread on my website to see this done on a GS.

Fat Arnie said:

I can't quite figure out why mine has swaged ends on the hoses then! It's not really a DIY thing. Odd...

Click to expand...

My GS does - 2006 model - wonder why they changed?

Thanks Craig, Helpful info. Npt sure what the E brake bracket is? There is a horizontal box section in the subframe above the gearbox that is bolted in - is this what I need to undo?

I did drop the subframe a bit to take a look - seems I'll need some muscle to help get it all down as one unit now so it does not fall off the tranny jack, but should be OK.


I reckon the front is easier that the rear - I intend to support the engine from above and drop the subframe out of the bottom.


My brake unions had had it. I cut them off and will replace all the lines with stainless. I'm going for braided hose to the calipers anyway.




Any info on getting the handbrake cable out or should I just cut it and buy a new one. Seems well attached to the upright!

Thanks

Fat Arnie said:

My brake unions had had it. I cut them off and will replace all the lines with stainless. I'm going for braided hose to the calipers anyway.

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Stainless for the unions or the pipes?

I thought copper was used because it's more flexible / less likely to break especially under pressure, and that Kunifer was the preferred option?

Fat Arnie said:

Thanks Craig, Helpful info. Npt sure what the E brake bracket is? There is a horizontal box section in the subframe above the gearbox that is bolted in - is this what I need to undo?

I did drop the subframe a bit to take a look - seems I'll need some muscle to help get it all down as one unit now so it does not fall off the tranny jack, but should be OK.


I reckon the front is easier that the rear - I intend to support the engine from above and drop the subframe out of the bottom.


My brake unions had had it. I cut them off and will replace all the lines with stainless. I'm going for braided hose to the calipers anyway.




Any info on getting the handbrake cable out or should I just cut it and buy a new one. Seems well attached to the upright!

Thanks

Click to expand...

Here read through this toward the bottom a bit where it shows how I remove the gear box. It also shows the wire bracket hanging down from the top right above the gear box that will keep you from moving it backwards. Talks about the E brake as well: http://craig-waterman.com/?p=286