Latest gov nonsense!

keith

Member
Messages
624
Without getting too political. I have always voted Tory, but the latest potential news is beginning to make me wonder if the inexperienced imbeciles running this country truly are cretins!!
Apparently Philip Hammond is considering putting up VAT on Diesel fuel. That provides zero distinction between modern clean Diesels and the older type. Given that one of Britains major producers - JLR produce and still rely on sales of their modern Diesel engine cars, and have been on record as saying they contribute to cleaning up pollution, will completely and unfairly effect them and indeed all other manufacturers.
I am sure a petrol VAT increase won't be far away.
To me it's all about gov revenue, and jumping on the back of Sidiq Kahn and his policy as an excuse.
I am still amazed at how electric can be the answer, given the relative lack of infrastructure for mass ownership, and as I have said before the problems with replacing and disposing of spent batteries.
 
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6,001
I agree but a small point.
I have been told that the spent batteries from a car are still 'man enough' to be used in the home.
So you could for example have PV cells on the roof and charge the ex car battery during the day ready for use at night. Not sure of the verisimilitude (like hat word) of this. I believe Ikea the affordable have some batteries already
 

P R

Member
Messages
1,382
Even after home use, the batteries will need disposing of at some point. And when and if new technology comes do you think people will want to keep the old stuff?

And Keith, you are dead right, its what you get when people without knowledge try to gain political headway by using ill informed sound bites and say what they think people want to hear..
 

MrMickS

Member
Messages
3,951
Its an excuse to raise taxes. That said not all EURO 6 diesels are equal.

There is a UK organisation that carries out real world tests on diesel and whereas some German diesels are good even under real world conditions, the VM Motori diesels much beloved by our favourite Italian manufacturers are frankly awful. They don't have a defeat device but might as well the emissions are that bad. See http://equaindex.com for some info.

There is a problem with air quality, and its does need something doing about it. I'd like to think that the UK can use Brexit to impose a new set of real world tests on cars so as to reward those manufacturers that play by the spirit rather than the letter of the rules. I'm guessing that lobbying by the industry will defeat this though in the same way that the largest polluters, transport industries, have done already.
 

P R

Member
Messages
1,382
Be a bit careful, one of these so called independent companies measuring this type of data was heavily funded by VW after the scandal. They aren't always as neutral as they appear to be
 

keith

Member
Messages
624
Its an excuse to raise taxes. That said not all EURO 6 diesels are equal.

There is a UK organisation that carries out real world tests on diesel and whereas some German diesels are good even under real world conditions, the VM Motori diesels much beloved by our favourite Italian manufacturers are frankly awful. They don't have a defeat device but might as well the emissions are that bad. See http://equaindex.com for some info.

There is a problem with air quality, and its does need something doing about it. I'd like to think that the UK can use Brexit to impose a new set of real world tests on cars so as to reward those manufacturers that play by the spirit rather than the letter of the rules. I'm guessing that lobbying by the industry will defeat this though in the same way that the largest polluters, transport industries, have done already.

Naturally as an owner of said VM Motori Diesel Maserati's (albeit Euro 6) all this anti Diesel talk strikes a chord, and of course emissions and pollution need to be controlled.
But to make two points:-
Why does it seem the car driver is being singled out, with not as much mention of commercial vehicles or even other forms of polluting transportation.
Those with petrol cars shouldn't bury their heads in the sand. How long before the government/media turn their attention to petrol. The Maserati V6 is behind the competition now on power and emissions and the V8 Maserati's like all other big engined cars will firmly be in the sites of the anti pollution lobby. Older petrol cars are already subject to higher charges in central London.
Don't be surprised in the medium term future car ownership starts to become a privilege of the rich, or those with specific needs. I think we could well be at the start of a turning point in car ownership.
Apologies in advance for sounding so negative.
 

zagatoes30

Member
Messages
20,756
Individuals always bear the brunt of these sort of tax rises as they are considered a soft target. Most commercial concerns will lobby hard for their particular industry and have the funds to do so. Air pollution is a complex subject with many variables of which only a few are ever make are press.

As above this is just an old fashioned tax hike hiding behind a thin veil of saving the planet.
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,511
I hate politicians and politics - all smoke and mirrors.
I only thing you can be sure of is that the conservatives will waste less money than Labour.

The whole clean air and war on diesel messes with my head as a few years ago Diesel was King !
One thing for sure the Maserati driven hard and giving me 12mpg and my Classic Mustang giving 10mpg does not make me feel like I am saving the planet -
I get 38mpg from the Jag - even when driven hard
 

MrMickS

Member
Messages
3,951
I think this whole drive, excuse the pun, towards self-driving cars will take ownership away from the masses. You will no longer just be able to jump in a car and go for a drive. You'll have to call a car that will arrive and take you to a destination by the most efficient route. Driving for pleasure will be something that people look back on in wonder.
 

keith

Member
Messages
624
I think this whole drive, excuse the pun, towards self-driving cars will take ownership away from the masses. You will no longer just be able to jump in a car and go for a drive. You'll have to call a car that will arrive and take you to a destination by the most efficient route. Driving for pleasure will be something that people look back on in wonder.

As I was saying in my last post, this is a turning point, and I think your point is spot on.
 

iainw

Member
Messages
3,386
I think this whole drive, excuse the pun, towards self-driving cars will take ownership away from the masses. You will no longer just be able to jump in a car and go for a drive. You'll have to call a car that will arrive and take you to a destination by the most efficient route. Driving for pleasure will be something that people look back on in wonder.

Long term- They just want us to end up being automatons working 24/7 with a bar code on our necks which will decide our destination..via a vacuum pod system. They (politicians) will develop a way to drain us of our blood to feed on... until we cease to exist.

Short term- they are making it harder for us to drive fuel guzzling super cars which really pisses me off.
 

D Walker

Member
Messages
9,827
Anybody who does not think they are being "controlled" all ready is delusional. The only consistency is the inconsistency...
 

iainw

Member
Messages
3,386
Agree. It’s Getting silly.
Most of us on the forum probably Pay more taxes Than google.
There is no improvement in sight. I for one am going to get a silly car whilst I can.
And pray to god I don’t get banned for speeding
 
G

Guest 1678

Guest
Agree. It’s Getting silly.
Most of us on the forum probably Pay more taxes Than google.
There is no improvement in sight. I for one am going to get a silly car whilst I can.
And pray to god I don’t get banned for speeding

They are already on to that with means tested fines. Banning you would remove the opportunity to extract more. Have a huge fine and a few points.
 

MrMickS

Member
Messages
3,951
Anybody who does not think they are being "controlled" all ready is delusional. The only consistency is the inconsistency...

There isn't the organisation to be able to exert any real form of control. What we do have is a push, driven by the tech companies, towards thinking that machine = safe, human = unsafe. This message is reinforced so much that it has almost become unchallenged and will lead, inevitably, towards regulations requiring cars to be in self drive mode on certain roads.
 

Felonious Crud

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
21,010
Long term- They just want us to end up being automatons working 24/7 with a bar code on our necks which will decide our destination..via a vacuum pod system. They (politicians) will develop a way to drain us of our blood to feed on... until we cease to exist.

Short term- they are making it harder for us to drive fuel guzzling super cars which really pisses me off.

We're all just a simulation anyway. Probably. Well, 50/50 according to some. We are but playthings, an amusing simulation for the merriment of an advanced civilisation. Perhaps one of many.

Crack on and enjoy it!