F1 pump relay BMW alternative

Cut and pasted from the other side, by JonnyBoy:

"The Pump Relay. Manufactured by Tyco/Siemens and the early V23134-B57-X203 was superceded by the upgradad V23134-B57-X152, Maserati and Ferrari Part No 155437, 5 pin Relay. I checked with Tyco, and these relays are Manufacturer specific, and cannot be bought through Tyco/Siemens Distributors. However, this relay is also*supplied to BMW as an ABS relay, BMW Part No*6136-1393403, and can be purchased new for just over £18, a great saving on the £70+ Maserati charge for one. Second hand ones are also available on Ebay for between £5 and £8. *£18 is an excellent price and I would recommend keeping one as a spare in the glove box just incase the relay fails in the open position, and the pump keeps on running, just as mine did"

Anyway currently bored at my local BMW dealer waiting for my daily runner to have new front pads fitted, I have checked the above referenced BMW ABS relay, and yes a few pence over £18, so I've ordered one, at that price worth it being less than half the price than quoted by Eurospares.

Cheers Mike,

Are they really that unreliable?

As a kid I can remember my dad replacing the odd relay on indicators and such but in 32 odd years of riding and driving myself about I've never had one fail...

It has been known to fail, it carries a substantial current and switches the F1 hydraulic pump on when the pressure drops in the system.
So the contacts in the relay switch frequently, probably after every gear change.
When the contacts fail, they fail either closed together resulting in the F1 pump running constantly and burning out, or failing open with no pump running...and no gear change possible.
So its good practice to carry a spare/change after a period of time.

Thats a great saving and showing what a rip off Maserati/Ferrari parts can be...

I had a full diagnostic check done on mine and it had done nearly 230,000 gear changes. So these relays do work pretty hard if they kick in after each change.

70 pounds from Ferrari/Maserati?!? Are you absolutely sure about that Mike? I bought a relay for my 2004 QP not so long ago. I don't have the invoice to hand but I don't recall paying that much.

EDIT: I guess you are not that far off - Eurospares (whose prices are usually within 10-20% off Ferrari/Maserati) are selling that part number for just under 40 quid each (once you add the VAT that will be nearer 50). Still, I agree that it's a lot to pay for a relay!

Yeah...bit of a rip off for 60s technology

P

In support of Mikes statements, here is a copy of an article I posted on one of the other forums:

I have read numerous posts regarding the failure of the hydraulic pump that primes the Cabiocorsa gearbox. Such a failure fills me with dread as the result is to be stranded.

It seems to me that some preventative maintenance might reduce instances of pump failure and in my opinion such maintenance may best apply to the relay.

The pump motor presents an inductive load to the relay contacts. When the load is removed (ie, when the contacts open) the back EMF generated by the pump motor coil causes an arc as the contacts separate. This can be reduced by the inclusion of a diode in the circuit. However, I don't know if a discrete diode is in the circuit as I don't have a circuit diagram. The arc causes the contacts to erode, and can also cause the contact to weld. So the pump either fails to operate, or continuously operates (and then burns out, I guess).

So regular replacement of the relay must surely reduce the possibility of pump failure.

I removed the relay from my 52-plate 4200 (38k miles) and dismantled it. I attach a photo of the contacts. You can see that one contact surface is very pitted. What you can't quite see is that the other contact is very eroded.

I also attach a photo of an (apparently) nearly new set of contacts. You can see both contacts are unmarked with a nice slight convex profile.

The relay I removed is the Tyco V23134-B57-X203. This relay is not listed on the Tyco website, and I suspect it is a special part number for Maserati/Ferrari. It is about £50 from Eurospares. Further research suggested that the V23134-B57-X152 relay is equivalent. So I bought one off Ebay (£8.46 delivered). This is a used relay taken from a BMW 525 and drives the ABS system.

Mechanically the relays are identical. Electrically they are similar also, with just minor re-routing of the internal components (both have a 470ohm resistor in parallel with the coil plus a diode to one of the connections). Coil impedance is the same as is the apparent size and profile of the contacts. I don't know if the contact materials are the same.

The second photo is of the replacement relay's contacts. I should add that there are two pairs of contact per relay - I am just showing one of the pairs. The other pair are equally damaged in the case of the original relay.

So in summary, I inspected the contacts of the F1 Pump Relay in order to satisfy myself that the relay was a potential weak point, and I sourced a cheap and readily available replacement.

I have fitted the replacement and it works fine. I intend carrying the original as a spare in the car.

I welcome anyone's views on this.

Thanks Dave

Take a look at the other forum for photosv-http://www.*********************/m_70408/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#70408
Dave

It was your post as well Dave that pushed me to order the uprated relay.
Also see this guys description regarding the X152 replacement:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F1-PUMP-R..._Accessories&hash=item3cca33b894#ht_996wt_922

When I pick up my BMW equivalent tomorrow, I will check for the TYCO part number on the casing and report back!

CAUTION guys....you need to match rating of relay to model of pump...different relays....double check

P

Maybe the X152 was introduced to replace the original X203 relay, when they uprated the F1 pump.
The only problem I see is if you fit the original X203 relay to a car fitted with the uprated F1 pump, the X152 should be suitable for all?

I'm going to order a BMW relay tomorrow to keep in the glove box, just in case. BTW, where is the F1 relay situated on the car?

Boot Ian...see your manual

P

BennyD said:

I'm going to order a BMW relay tomorrow to keep in the glove box, just in case. BTW, where is the F1 relay situated on the car?

Click to expand...

Its within 10 inches of the battery isolator switch and slightly higher and forward, bolted to the innerside of the inner wing , if you fumble around in there with a torch you'll see it easily


regards loz

Thanks Loz, I'll have a look tomorrow. The old spyder has got a busy weekend, she's going to get a ragging. Should be fun.

Thanks to you too Frank, however, I'd rather be told than have to read up on it!

Picked up the relay from BMW, and it looks identical to one in the eBay link above, and has the full same TYCO part number ending in X152.
Of course it also has BMW and ABS printed on it, but these can be removed if it bothers you!

Now I have found the F1 relay above the battery, but how on earth are you supposed to remove it from the holder? You can only just get your hand up there, and you need to grip it, and push up, not down, my fingers slip off it!

Mike, working out problems like this is one of the joys of Maserati ownership!

BennyD said:

Mike, working out problems like this is one of the joys of Maserati ownership!

Click to expand...

Indeed!
Thinking about it, I have some thin rubber coated cotton gloves, must have a go wearing them!

I may be pi$$ing up the wrong tree again but don't you get easier access if you take the side boot liner out?

Black plastic trim across the lower lip first, boot seal rubber next then the floor and the side should come out next I'm pretty sure.... Did it when I ripped out the tracker...