Cold Start Noise

Jkulin said:

The last three days the noise has been present on every cold start, the dealer is fully aware but out of the Country until the 16th.

This evening when starting it up after it has been idle since Friday is sounded like a Bag of Spanners, which you can hear on the link below: -

http://www.goldenchariots.com/downloads/maserati_cold_start_070216.m4a

The sound lasted longer that the original recording http://www.goldenchariots.com/downloads/maserati_cold_start_020116.m4a

Whilst searching as to whether it is the Variators or not I came up against this thread, is there a difference between the Accumulator and the Variators, if so then could the issue be the Accumulator as the dealer has confirmed in writing and is adamant that the Variators have been repaired but can't confirm precisely what was fixed until his return to the UK.

Specifically the following posts is what makes me ask the question: -



"mother in laws dentures" is the perfect description for the nose.

I have said before that I do not want to return the car for a refund as everything else has been sorted, I have suggested to the dealer that the car be taken to a Main Dealer at their cost for them to identify what the cause is and then a decision made as to how he wants to play it, I am trying to be fair and reasonable, all that I want is the car fixing.

Click to expand...

That is EXACTLY the same noise as I used to get in my 4.2. (which is not really any help I know, but at least you know that you are not alone)

Bobby, what did it prove to be in your case?

Jkulin said:

Bobby, what did it prove to be in your case?

Click to expand...

That is the thing - someone told me variators, and the dealer couldn't replicate the sound despite me sending them the sound files.

The noise happened so infrequently (only when the car was cold, but it lived in a garage) that I just lived with it. The noise was exactly like yours and really alarming for those few second. And then I sold the car after only one winter so it wasn't an issue for me, but my current 4.7 doesn't make the noise! I'd be alarmed if it did though......

I'm sorry that I can't be of more help, but you are not alone.

Thanks Bobby.

Hi there,

My 4.2 GT sport did it infrequently around the 50k milage point, the noise down to the valve train bucket to cam clearence due to the hydraulic lifters not being fully pressurised / filled with oil.

Oil draining due to the accumulator / non return valves is one reason , or just leak down at the lifter .

I cured my symptom by changing to Mobil 1 10/60.. My car is now on 81k with no ill effects.( & going better than ever..)
I believe the thicker oil leaks down less from the hydraulic lifters & prevents the greater valve clearance developing / noise on start up.

Oil is relatively cheap although 9 litres is just under £80.00 worth a try I reckon.

Cheers

Thanks Gixerboy, much appreciate your thoughts.

I've had a good think over the weekend and decided to contact GrayPaul in Birmingham and book the car in for their 190 point pre-inspection check, I figured that one way or the other I would get to the bottom of this and as the earliest I could get it booked in was the 2nd March I figured it gave enough time for the dealer to return from being abroad and for all parties to discuss a way forward, the dealer keeps saying that he will have it back, which I don't want as once everything is fixed I would be unlikely to find another car like this and the seller knows this and also knows that he undersold it..

I spoke to the finance company later this afternoon and they really are quite good, they work on two strikes and the dealer is out, they have had ample opportunity to rectify the fault over the 4 weeks that they had the car, the finance company approved of the vehicle being inspected at the Main Dealers and said that one way or the other either the selling dealer or the finance company would pick up the tab for the inspection which is costing £385.

The service light is being reset on Friday and they will be ordering the official Security Code Card direct from Maserati, again which I am not paying for.

I figure that the knowing all the gremlins now will hopefully prove fruitful in the end rather than having to find another vehicle with unknown problems.

I'm not normally a patient man, but am finding this uncannily easy.

It will be interesting to see what the comprehensive inspection may throw up and as you say, at least you will get to the bottom of it
Good luck

Well some positive news today, I went to GrayPaul in Solihull to have the service light reset and the service manager came out to speak with me, I replayed the latest recording of the cold start noise and before it had finished playing he said "Variators!

I explained to him and showed him the Dealers letter saying that it had been done and he said cobblers not in a million years.

He explained that just replacing it with a new variator will not cure the problem, the variator has to be sent away to Maserati in Slough where they will arrange for it to be machined and a non return valve fitted and then it will be sent back to the dealer to be fitted, he is 1000000% certain that the variators are creating this fault and have not been fixed properly.

So I rang the finance company and new legislation has come into force since October whereby the dealer has one chance to fix it the way he wants to and then if the problem remain unresolved then legally I can choose where I want it fixed and the dealer has to pay, the dealer has no right to insist that the car is returned for a refund nor can he refuse to pay the bill. The dealer is welcome to call the Main Dealer and arrange for trade terms, but he cannot refuse for the work to be done at a place of my choosing.

The dealer had his fair chance to do it honestly the first time round, where I was advised that it was going into GrayPaul Notts to be fixed and then he admitted that an Indi that he knows had done it.

The dealer has been playing at my heart strings because he knows he undersold the car and knows that I love it and keeps saying that he will take it back and refund me, which I have kept saying I don't want to return it, so the new legislation now works in my favour whereby I can insist on keeping the car and he has to fix it.

I knew that having a small amount of finance was crucial and I would advise anyone to do the same no matter how financially comfortable they are.

Sounds good

I believe when my variators were done via JCT600 Leeds, they sent them back to Italy to be machined

Good news John, another example of an unscrupulous seller trying it on - good for you, for getting to the bottom of it and I hope it all works out soon

Thanks Stuart and Dave,

Yes I think there will be a few fireworks next week when the dealer gets back into the UK, but as long as I know that the law is on my side and that the dealer is solvent (which he is as I have checked) then I will sit it out and wait, I'm in no particular hurry.

When I spoke to GrayPaul this morning they intimated that the car was probably under priced and that there probably wasn't very many in that spec in the UK that year.

Yes Stuart they intimated that the parts are sent back to the factory, but not sure whether that is on an exchange basis, they said something about it taking a couple of weeks, is that correct?

There's been quite a bit happening behind the scenes some of which almost certainly aren't correct, more will follow once all the work has been done, I can't naturally publish on here yet but will when it is all done and dusted.

The long and short of the situation is that the dealer refused to pay for the variators to be fixed correctly, they gave me a letter confirming that they had been done, however it transpires a little differently.

Forgive me but you will have to read in between the missing bits.

I went down to The Supercar Rooms in Hartlebury, Worcs. last Tuesday and what a simply fantastic operation they have down there, eat your heart out any other main dealer, this company is truly switched on, they had about 80 cars in their showroom, some on commission sales, others as stock item, a beautiful blend of Ferrari, Lambo's, Porsche, Bentley, McLaren and Maserati, it was like being a kid in a toy shop.

From the off they made me feel comfortable and soon their mechanic had the QP on the ramps and declared that in his considered opinion the variators had not been touched as there was no sign that the front timing cover seal had been broken and the allen bolts still had crud in them which wouldn't have happened if the covers had been taken off and that it would be good practice to fit new fan belts etc which hadn't happened.

I then asked him to take it out on a test drive as there was a knocking coming from the front suspension which was supposed to have be sorted at the selling dealership.

The long and the short of it is that there was a lower bush that was worn causing the knocking at £35 + a couple of hours labour at £75/Hour, hardly robbery and which will be covered by the finance company.

So Mark their Service Manager arranged a quote that included collecting the car in an enclosed transporter, ordering new Variators and then sending them away to the same company that Maserati uses in the UK (They don't send them to Italy as I was previously advised by the Main Dealer) to have non return valves machined, well below is a copy of their quotation which the finance company have approved: -

Labour
Carry out strip down of engine to allow replacement of both camshaft variators including the removal of front timing cover, both cam covers, 20.00 75.00 1500.00
Sub Contract - Carry out machining work to fit non return valves to cam caps 1.00 400.00 400.00
Replace OSF lower shock absorber bush 2.00 75.00 150.00
Collect vehicle by transporter 74.00 1.25 92.50
Deliver vehicle by transporter 74.00 1.25 92.50

Parts

253625 Variator 2.00 163.20 326.40
296016 Solenoid Valve 2.00 79.93 159.86
238690 Front cover gasket 1.00 37.30 37.30
211219 RH Cam Cover Gasket 1.00 27.20 27.20
211220 LH Cam cover gasket 1.00 28.84 28.84
223982 Spark Plug Seal 8.00 2.04 16.32
183010 Oil Ring 2.00 2.12 4.24
188717 Front crankshaft seal 1.00 11.54 11.54
228962 Oil Pressure Valve Gasket 2.00 4.12 8.24
200458 Non return valve 2.00 5.28 10.56
ENG OIL 5W40 Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 9.50 10.00 95.00
AFB Antifreeze Blue 7.00 7.50 52.50
PAS PAS Fluid 1.00 10.00 10.00
DOT4 Brake Fluid 1.00 9.00 9.00
SEALANT Gasket sealant 1.00 20.00 20.00
CONSUM Consumables 1.00 9.95 9.95
157630 Shock absorber bush 1.00 35.00 35.00

Totals

Description

Amount

Vatable Items 3,096.95

VAT @ 20.00% 619.39

Zero Rated Items 0.00

Total Estimate Value 3,716.34

There is a lot more that has happened behind the scenes, but the finance company have approved this repair with the bill being sent to them.

It will go in W/C 4th April as I need the car until then and have an expensive repair being carried out on the 911 so can't afford to be without a car whilst they are fixing everything, so the variators being fixed correctly amounts to just over £3300 half the price of a Main Dealer with a similar job being carried out.

The original dealer kept insisting that I return the car, but I reasoned that finding another car of this specification and colour combination with certified proof that the variators had been fixed would be difficult with this low mileage, I have had to be very patient, but even then the finance company have said that once everything is fixed that they will then look into how they can compensate me for the amount of time I have been without a car and made repayments and all of my mileage and wasted time going all over the place, can't say fairer than that

The Finance Company are Close Finance and I have found them to be truly brilliant and even though the amount of finance I have on the car is small they have acted professionally as if the whole car had been financed.

Top work John!

Glad you've got it sorted John

Great job

Good news indeed John, very disappointing to hear the lies from the supplying dealer though but it will be good to get it fixed properly and have your faith & confidence restored

Really pleased to see you got there in the end John and well stuck at it

D

Good lad well done
I was told by JCT600 Leeds that variator parts go back to Italy for repair / replace
I have no way of confirming this though and it takes about 7 -10 days to grt the car back

Gixerboy said:

Hi there,

My 4.2 GT sport did it infrequently around the 50k milage point, the noise down to the valve train bucket to cam clearence due to the hydraulic lifters not being fully pressurised / filled with oil.

Oil draining due to the accumulator / non return valves is one reason , or just leak down at the lifter .

I cured my symptom by changing to Mobil 1 10/60.. My car is now on 81k with no ill effects.( & going better than ever..)
I believe the thicker oil leaks down less from the hydraulic lifters & prevents the greater valve clearance developing / noise on start up.

Oil is relatively cheap although 9 litres is just under £80.00 worth a try I reckon.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Hi Gixerboy,

Is your 4.2 a duo select or normal auto pls? I too have the 2 second clatter on my GrandTurismo 4.2 - it is the variators/cap issue described here - however I only get the clatter at start up in winter when the car has been left in the garage for a day or so an totally cold. Not an issue in the Spring or basically when the weather is mild - I've had the car two years now. I don't have a warranty or finance so on my own. The £3.3k fix described is a good price. My car has 24k miles on it.

Thanks

The more viscous oil sounds a good idea.

24k miles is a trifle low for variator problem in my experience it is normally around 45k - 50k