GTS engine catastrophe

Itare Sam · Jun 9, 2020

Here's four photos as sent by Matt.
image0 Sump
image1 Silicone sealant
image2 An old solinoid valve top, yours bottom missing sticker found in sump
image3 This is the metal after the oil has soaked away from the filter

JJbing · Jun 9, 2020

Is there anything that could be done to make the best out of a bad situation? For instance, I had a friend who had a 2006 V8 Vantage 4.3 which had engine failure he took it too Bamford Rose (I think), they rebuilt his engine and converted it to a 4.7L (like the new vantages).

Just wondering if there is something similar you could do with your engine, and use this as an excuse to upgrade your car. I'm not a mechanical expert by any means, so might be way off.

Itare Sam · Jun 9, 2020

JJbing said:
Is there anything that could be done to make the best out of a bad situation? For instance, I had a friend who had a 2006 V8 Vantage 4.3 which had engine failure he took it too Bamford Rose (I think), they rebuilt his engine and converted it to a 4.7L (like the new vantages).

Just wondering if there is something similar you could do with your engine, and use this as an excuse to upgrade your car. I'm not a mechanical expert by any means, so might be way off.

Interesting suggestion - I like the idea of turning adversity to opportunity if possible. Like you I'm no expert so need to be advised by others. Matt and Ashley's view is that because the lack of oil is likely to have meant damage to all moving parts the cost of replacement items plus fitting would exceed the cost of a replacement engine. Whether it's possible to bore and stroke the Maserati 4.7 litre to a larger capacity is one for the experts out there. Of course the best way of achieving an improvement would be to fit a brand new motor, but that would cost several arms and legs I fear.

Wanderer · Jun 9, 2020

Itare Sam said:
Interesting suggestion - I like the idea of turning adversity to opportunity if possible. Like you I'm no expert so need to be advised by others. Matt and Ashley's view is that because the lack of oil is likely to have meant damage to all moving parts the cost of replacement items plus fitting would exceed the cost of a replacement engine. Whether it's possible to bore and stroke the Maserati 4.7 litre to a larger capacity is one for the experts out there. Of course the best way of achieving an improvement would be to fit a brand new motor, but that would cost several arms and legs I fear.

What's the lowest prices on 4.7 QP's? Part the rest out?

conaero · Jun 9, 2020

It is very unfortunate news and we hate to have to deliver it.

Regarding the sealant, we have the offside cam cover off and no sign of any nor squeezed out of the other one that is still in place.

The sealant is the beige colour one, found in the front cover. The sump is not sealed, its a rubber gasket so it is all rather odd. There is rather a lot of it in the sump too plus an unknown amount still stuck in the engine galleries.

The engine internals will be worn out of tolerance due to oil starvation so pointless rebuilding.

lozcb · Jun 9, 2020

Itare Sam said:
So possibly there's a chance they were over-enthusiastic with the valve cover gaskets sealant. Or the sump nut washer sealant maybe? Is that possible that something as simple as too much sealant in a routine service could wreck an engine?

Certainly is , each cylinder has a tiny oil feeder tube probably internal diameter about 2mm max , it would only take a small amount of sealant to block an oil feeder , and then another and so on ...............................im shocked and gutted for you mate because there are probably more of these feeders around the engine , almost wants one to be present to inspect the oil when its changed on service at the dealers

Wack61 · Jun 9, 2020

Itare Sam said:
Is that possible that something as simple as too much sealant in a routine service could wreck an engine?

I had an engine swapped in a transit van , they couldn't get hold of a gasket so they used sealant , only they blocked an oil journal with it , it lasted about 15 miles before it blew a pipe off and lost all the oil , by the time the low oil pressure light came on it was clanking , by the time I'd got to the hard shoulder it was toast.

allandwf · Jun 9, 2020

Sorry to read this. Hope for a good ending whatever you decide, or what happens.

Mr S · Jun 9, 2020

No doubt that Matt and Ashley will get it sorted ASAP for you, though I do feel your pain having been there. At least you are now in good hands.

Sam McGoo · Jun 9, 2020

Sorry to hear your news, but at least you can move forward now.

@conaero or anyone else that knows - Is there not a strainer on the oil pick up in these engines? Or was that blocked which caused the starvation?

conaero · Jun 9, 2020

Sam McGoo said:
Sorry to hear your news, but at least you can move forward now.

@conaero or anyone else that knows - Is there not a strainer on the oil pick up in these engines? Or was that blocked which caused the starvation?

There is but it’s in a metal shell so it’s not like the normal sieve type. It will be full of debris but unfortunately the damage is done.

The oil in the sump is worn metal in oil suspension plus some rather large chunks.

midlifecrisis · Jun 9, 2020

That is a crying shame to read and hopefully a rarity. The cheap QP as an engine donor is a good idea. Saw one the other day for £7k but it was a 4.2.

Navcorr · Jun 9, 2020

Devonboy said:
I had a Saab with full Saab service history but no warranty....when they discovered I needed a new engine at 50,000 miles, they paid for 905 of it because "Saab engines don't fail after 50,000 miles". My next 3 cars were all Saabs!

Was this from about 15-ish years ago onwards? If so, almost certainly one of a number of SAAB engine failures following a design change. They removed a large volume of metal/mass from the oil coolers. Whereas, they had spec'd semi-syn oil previously their mistake was not changing to fully synthetic. Not a problem whilst the engines were running but after switching off the engines got so hot the semi-syn oil was being cracked. The loss of performance could prove catastrophic. Regardless of age/mileage internal SAAB documents were explicit in instruction. That where a car had been bought from and fully serviced by SAAB a new engine was to be offered FOC. Obviously side-stepping negative publicity in the process.

Navcorr · Jun 9, 2020

Itare Sam said:
thank you! yes just the luck of the draw I guess.

I must say that you're being somewhat magnanimous. I'd be livid.
Perhaps more important matters at present to be worry about but even so.
Well played sir. Hope it isn't too painful for you.

philw696 · Jun 9, 2020

That's certainly a lot of silicone and definitely not from the valve covers.
Intrigued and interested to know more as to what has happened and feel gutted for you.
When the oil water pump failed on my Project 4200 the internals were as new.

alfatwo · Jun 9, 2020

I've had this lots of times with old alfa race engines, silicon sealant blocking crank shaft oil ways.. etc..
When you get monkeys working with this old tech stuff they don't understand, your bound to get trouble!

Dave

Goodfella · Jun 9, 2020

Sorry to hear this.

I would absolutely have to upgrade the engine somehow.. Supercharger?

StuartW · Jun 9, 2020

Very sorry to hear this but you sound as chipper as you can in the circumstances so I hope you end up with a good resolution.
If you do decide to approach Maserati about this, I believe that all of their customer care is now run out of Modena via the info@maserati.com contact, rather than via Maserati GB in Slough but if you want to approach Maserati GB, drop me a PM and I will pass on a contact for you

elan · Jun 9, 2020

That’s terrible luck. I hope you get it back in even better shape.
Are there no sensors to warn you when there is oil starvation?

alfatwo · Jun 9, 2020

Maybe lots cheaper to buy another car!

Dave

GTS engine catastrophe

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