Phil the Brit
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Which part of his statement is ludicrous? Just curious.
Anyone had the jab yet?
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Which part of his statement is ludicrous? Just curious.
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If I remember correctly. Blox had posted previously that his daughter had a very unpleasant reaction to a vaccine and hence is understandably nervous about what might happen with the COVID vaccine. Blanket statements along the lines of its everyone's duty to get vaccinated might understandably rankle.
Wattie
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It was a son, An experience the family is still living with.
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You're right, I stand corrected.
Wattie
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No need, I think you captured the tone of the situation perfectly.
Phil the Brit
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I, of course missed that information from Blox.
However, Matt Hancock is now blaming "Refusenicks" (not his word) but used today in a major national newspaper nonetheless.
He, and many others now including Bolton City Council are BLAMING people who are not getting the jab for the future potential non lockdown on 21st June.
The blame for our problems is going to shift to the anti's.
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I think there's a difference between those that have a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated, those who need more information to help them decide and those who may or may not have opposable thumbs. It's too easy to categorise everyone into the same bucket when their reasons for saying 'no', 'umm', or 'why should I?' are likely to be very different.
CatmanV2
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Tallman
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No point in shouting at each other - also no point in quoting selected snippets of news. The question is do we trust the science, the scientists, and those that implement policies based on that science. If we don't then we're all in trouble and we're walking blind. Then its whatever and whoever shouts loudest. It's easy to just take one or two news items and base your whole argument on whether you are fore or against on just those two news items.
If we do trust that the scientists and implementers know what they are doing to the best of current knowledge (and that's all we have unfortunately - and it's always been like this) then we should follow what is deemed to be the best solution presently available and also understand what it is all about.
For example it's not simply about protecting those that are vaccinated as most (or at least 80% of us) will not get serious symptoms. It's about finding the best way to eradicate the virus in as quick a time as possible so we can all continue living our more or less normal lives and reduce the number of deaths. Understandably we are going to be hearing some bad stories about vaccines. As with any medication (or food for that matter), there are those that may have very bad adverse effects and possibly even lead to deaths. We have seen blood clot problems with some of the vaccines for example. But that's statistics for you - if something is 99.8% effective and 0.2% deadly we are going to hear about the 0.2% - bad news (and sex) sells... but we should zoom out and look at the larger picture - it's a no-brainer that we should go with something that is 99.8% effective for example - and then we haven't even factored in the wider economics.
So then what about people refusing to go with the solution that is best for the community as a whole - and not necessary for the individual? Well, by logical conclusion they will then be contributing to a delay in economic recovery and an increase in deaths, there is no other way to say it unfortunately. We may claim that it is their right, which it is. But they should at least know the likely consequences of their decision. This is pretty similar to what in economics is called the free rider problem but in this case the cost not just monetary (economic growth) but also lives - could be your gran, uncle, wife, brother or even child, it's pretty random to some extent.
If we do trust that the scientists and implementers know what they are doing to the best of current knowledge (and that's all we have unfortunately - and it's always been like this) then we should follow what is deemed to be the best solution presently available and also understand what it is all about.
For example it's not simply about protecting those that are vaccinated as most (or at least 80% of us) will not get serious symptoms. It's about finding the best way to eradicate the virus in as quick a time as possible so we can all continue living our more or less normal lives and reduce the number of deaths. Understandably we are going to be hearing some bad stories about vaccines. As with any medication (or food for that matter), there are those that may have very bad adverse effects and possibly even lead to deaths. We have seen blood clot problems with some of the vaccines for example. But that's statistics for you - if something is 99.8% effective and 0.2% deadly we are going to hear about the 0.2% - bad news (and sex) sells... but we should zoom out and look at the larger picture - it's a no-brainer that we should go with something that is 99.8% effective for example - and then we haven't even factored in the wider economics.
So then what about people refusing to go with the solution that is best for the community as a whole - and not necessary for the individual? Well, by logical conclusion they will then be contributing to a delay in economic recovery and an increase in deaths, there is no other way to say it unfortunately. We may claim that it is their right, which it is. But they should at least know the likely consequences of their decision. This is pretty similar to what in economics is called the free rider problem but in this case the cost not just monetary (economic growth) but also lives - could be your gran, uncle, wife, brother or even child, it's pretty random to some extent.
Saigon
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Blox, please accept my apology for any offense or upset that I have caused, I’m really sorry.
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All other things being equal, yes. But things aren't equal and some people cannot / should not have a vaccination because a pre-existing medical condition might make it more dangerous for them to be vaccinated than not. And that's fine as long as [insert number here]% of the population has been vaccinated, thus making it a bloody sight harder for this adaptable little virus to do its pesky mutating and then spread.
If you can, you should.
And then, whether you've been jabbed or not, you should get in your car and go for a drive. Which, as far as I know, is the one common thread that unites us all on here. Because it sure as **** isn't an intimate understanding of vaccines and politics.
Scaf
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The recommendation for people to have two tests per week came out before the scare around the Indian variant I think.
Teachers and pupils have been testing for a few months.
The tests in question are lateral flow tests that you do at home yourself, you get them for free online or from local pharmacy.
Our whole household is testing like this.
mjheathcote
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rockits
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So genuine question and gauge of opinion. I have been hesitant to get the vaccine even though it wasn't my choice initially as was too young to be offered it.
My hesitancy was around how long it takes to get a vaccine approved normally compared to how quick it has happened this time. Also that is seems much of the time saved I guess has been around long term trials/testing for safety. So there is genuine concern there. Not sure I've ever trusted the UK Govt and not sure the Pharma's are to be trusted either it seems.
With so much conflicting information and I guess the main issue being that I find it hard to believe anyone or anything that is said. How the chuffing heck do you make an informed decision on what is best for your, your wife and your family when accurate trustworthy information seems hard to come by?
I've now been offered the vaccine but of course want to be sure it won't cause more issues than it is attempting not resolve. I don't really take medication for anything normally so not one of life's pill poppers.
I've no idea if I've had Covid already and never been tested at any point to date. Currently it seems there is quite intense social pressure to push people to take the vaccine with some saying it should be compulsory. I'm sure this is right or fair so seem to be caught between a rock and a hard placed. It just feels that it isn't really my decision any more.
My hesitancy was around how long it takes to get a vaccine approved normally compared to how quick it has happened this time. Also that is seems much of the time saved I guess has been around long term trials/testing for safety. So there is genuine concern there. Not sure I've ever trusted the UK Govt and not sure the Pharma's are to be trusted either it seems.
With so much conflicting information and I guess the main issue being that I find it hard to believe anyone or anything that is said. How the chuffing heck do you make an informed decision on what is best for your, your wife and your family when accurate trustworthy information seems hard to come by?
I've now been offered the vaccine but of course want to be sure it won't cause more issues than it is attempting not resolve. I don't really take medication for anything normally so not one of life's pill poppers.
I've no idea if I've had Covid already and never been tested at any point to date. Currently it seems there is quite intense social pressure to push people to take the vaccine with some saying it should be compulsory. I'm sure this is right or fair so seem to be caught between a rock and a hard placed. It just feels that it isn't really my decision any more.
allandwf
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^ It is your choice, and do what you feel best for you, and your circumstances. I had my 1st AZ, I seem to be one of the unlucky ones, 10 days of pretty bad side effects and six weeks before I felt back to being me. I would have it again, and intend to have the 2nd. Never usually even get a cold here either.
Scaf
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I agree completely, adds to the plastic mountain sadly.
Phil H
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You're not alone in that dilemma Rockits, and as someone in a high risk group I thought long and hard before accepting the vaccine. I am absolutely against mandatory medication of any kind, although we live in a world where we get it by default for travel etc; imho peer pressure from any media (including internet forums) either to accept or reject vaccination, is simply wrong, and when a peer of the realm sees fit to compare vaccination refusal with drink driving that seems like the thin end of a very large wedge.
I take heed of expert opinion, and ignore social commentators who are no more qualified in the subject than I am - of which there are many!
I take heed of expert opinion, and ignore social commentators who are no more qualified in the subject than I am - of which there are many!
mjheathcote
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This isn't the first time, remember swine flu back in 2009?
Remember our kids getting the vaccination "that was rushed through". Unfortunately a boy in the village caught it, without the vaccination, and became severely disabled as a result and subsequently died years later. You hear/know much more suffering/dieing because of not having a vaccination, than from the vaccine itself.
rockits
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Yup, remember it well as I had it back then. Just spent a couple of weeks in my bedroom in quarantine with mobile phone and laptop to carry on working. Felt exactly like flu and felt rough with no energy for a week then gradually got better over the next week.
There was almost zero discussion or so much concern back then so guessing it wasn't anywhere near as bad as Covid-19.
If course that was a terrible sad incident you mention there which is not great to hear. Not sure it really helps my decision much though.
Wattie
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Im in your camp. I don’t trust politicians and am very wary of the pace at which these vaccines were pushed through.
The testing was (effectively) done on the public and it’s clear the science varies from country to country.
We’re all fully vaccinated with everything else.
In Australia we have a different problem.
Govt kept the disease out.
It’s vaccination programme is miles behind others.
We’ve been told borders won’t reopen until June 2022.
Why then rush out and get vaccinated now.... (people are waiting for other choices as AZ has had appalling press over here) and the effects of any jab now may have worn off by 6/22
Besides they’ll probably be touting boosters by then.....or mix and match, or something else?
Good luck with the decision whichever you take.
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