Spoon stirring

Mr Spoon said:

So this will make the story sound even worse.... "card machine didn't work" when I tried to pay the deposit with card.

Anyway, the reviews for this dealership seemed very good and genuine. I have however noticed the car for sale on their facebook page for £18,950 so I'll be bringing this up with them also.

Facebook

www.facebook.com

I'm not on facebook, but lesson there is check first.

This has all of a sudden become a very interesting thread. (for me anyway )

Click to expand...

Honestly the money you are going to spend on this could go towards a newer 4.7. There is a guy on maserati uk thinking of selling his 09 4.7 s for around the 26k Mark and it has had the issues such as variators sorted. Send it back, if you let them give you money back or try and put it right you are going to be stuck with it. It is not what you were told or expected.

The posts above paint a picture. The upper wishbone mounts don’t appear much in the videos, but they look very, very rough. The surface rust on the rest of the front and rear subframes means there is at least some loss of thickness in the metal. Treatment of flaky metal like that doesn’t restore the strength. There seem to be plenty of other issues, but if the subframe is rotten would be the clincher for me. Unless you are very good friends with a great welder / fabricator of course.

On the face of it, this one looks like a painful experience.

Everything is repairable but having done a car very similar to yours it will be labour intensive and many bolts and bushes will need renewing as you won't get the originals out and you can only get new ones genuine.
Once the underside is done you still don't know what is under the wrap.
As to buying blind I have done it a couple of times but only because I felt the right vibes with the seller.
Start communicating straight away with your seller and record everything you can as I would say he is a Rogue Trader.

Mr Spoon said:

Buying blind is the new way. I'm mid 30s. Lots of people I know do this and have done for a few years now. Had I have seen this car in person, I lose DSR protection and I'd have not got underneath too much. I'd go as far too say most wouldn't either.

These inspections that are mentioned, only any good if they are local to the car. Otherwise you have to buy it then go from there. If that's in person, recourse is limited.

The good news for me is the distance selling regulations are present so even if the dealer, who as I've mentioned above, seems to have a good reputation, doesn't willingly help, I can force his hand. Albeit, it can take weeks and court action.

I'm off to another friends garage now to take another look.

No one has yet answered my question though, how much better can one be bought for £20k..... Reading other threads, rust seems to be an issue.

Thanks for all the replies, I'll keep posting updates

Click to expand...

King Cajones, Spoons! I doff my hat to your tenacity.

If not, sadly, to your Maser, which sounds like a wrong 'un. @dickygrace will have an expert view on how much you need to spend for a right 'un, but I'm sure they're out there. As someone else mentioned, you're not far off a 4.7 if you can dig a bit deeper. What it'll cost you to sort yours out will cover it, would be my guess.

Nowt wrong with buying unseen, I'm with you on that. I bought my Vantage blind. Needed a couple of bits but otherwise was mint. Mrs Crud would still rather I'd kept the Granturismo, though!

The car to buy would be the blue one @MAF260 posted up with a recent £16,200 expenditure but I would still want to look underneath it.
With the subframe you can inspect it on the car but once removed you will find it's even worse.
The one I did I sent it to be blasted and it barely came back in one piece.
The next task is everything that's attached to the subframe.
Don't want to be all doom and gloom but we have had many people come on the forum buying the wrong cars and it spoils the adventure for them forever.
Interested to see what the next assessment finds.

Mr Spoon said:

Buying blind is the new way. I'm mid 30s. Lots of people I know do this and have done for a few years now. Had I have seen this car in person, I lose DSR protection and I'd have not got underneath too much. I'd go as far too say most wouldn't either.

These inspections that are mentioned, only any good if they are local to the car. Otherwise you have to buy it then go from there. If that's in person, recourse is limited.

The good news for me is the distance selling regulations are present so even if the dealer, who as I've mentioned above, seems to have a good reputation, doesn't willingly help, I can force his hand. Albeit, it can take weeks and court action.

I'm off to another friends garage now to take another look.

No one has yet answered my question though, how much better can one be bought for £20k..... Reading other threads, rust seems to be an issue.

Thanks for all the replies, I'll keep posting updates

Click to expand...

I have no idea of the quality of 20k GTs, as its not something I've looked at, but I'm guessing most of the early ones wont be great underneath unless the owner is a good one, as it seems to have taken people by suprise the last few years how quickly they deteriorate after it starts.
Also, Main dealer service history means nothing on that front, as I viewed a 'mint' 2009 mc-shift in Aberdeen... And it had full main dealer service history, just been serviced and was 'mint on all other accounts. I looked underneath and was shocked. I walked.

While your looking today, have a look here, and concentrate on the subfame and wishbone attachment areas.
https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/qp-gt-front-subframes-the-truth.29928/

Felonious Crud said:

King Cajones, Spoons! I doff my hat to your tenacity.

If not, sadly, to your Maser, which sounds like a wrong 'un. @dickygrace will have an expert view on how much you need to spend for a right 'un, but I'm sure they're out there. As someone else mentioned, you're not far off a 4.7 if you can dig a bit deeper. What it'll cost you to sort yours out will cover it, would be my guess.

Nowt wrong with buying unseen, I'm with you on that. I bought my Vantage blind. Needed a couple of bits but otherwise was mint. Mrs Crud would still rather I'd kept the Granturismo, though!

Click to expand...

£20k can buy a good one but you need to shop around and have a few inspected. From my experience I would say about 1 in 7 £20000 2008 cars would be particularly good examples.

You also have the consumer protection act on your side, gives you 6 months protection after you have purchased, I have used it to good effect myself when ex other half bought a car and 3months later serious faults were found, dealers first reaction was 'we only give a 3 month warranty' as soon as I mentioned consumer protection act he changed his tune and we got a full refund of purchase price.

Good cars are out there but just sometimes the very best ones don't come up often. If you are patient, eagle eyed and quick you can grab a great example.

I waited and looked for about a year before buying my 4200. Then stumbled across one the guy had owned from new with only 10k miles. It was pretty much a new car almost and nearly as new underneath. I paid strong money at the time but it will always be worth much more than lesser examples.

That was 5 years ago I think I've had it so the car was 9 years old then as a late 2007 car. It has now still only done 15k miles and is still mint. It has spent 14 years always kept in a dehumidified dry garage and never seen a winter or driven in the rain. It really shows.

So really good examples are out there and IMHO it is worth paying much more for one of these. It will always be worth much more long term come resale and won't cost as much to maintain as a lesser example.

I guess a GT was a popular model for good reason but the older examples that have not been maintained as well as they might could easily cost a stack to get to a better place. If you are intending to keep it a while I'd suggest taking some time to find a great example as it can really reap rewards.

I'd be sending that one back for a refund if I could, chalking it down to experience and then try to find a better example.

Mr Spoon said:

I found the same car advertised for £18,950 on their Facebook page, so as a minimum I'll be wanting a bag of sand and the sub frame treated.

Click to expand...

This doesn't really mean anything - he could have put the price up? The price you agreed is on the receipt and, in law, that's what matters.

If you're not happy with the car, to keep things simple and straightforward, I would return it to the dealer within 14 days under DSR. You don't have to give any reason and are entitled to a full refund. I would not expect the dealer to contend this unless the condition or mileage of the car has changed significantly in your short ownership.

Given the dealer has clearly lied to you about pre-sale work being done, that's the route I would be taking. Also, if I saw words like "subframe rotten" on the MOT history, I'd be running away fast!

You can report potential MOT fraud to: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/report-an-mot-tester

I would put rear discs on your list too.

If you poke the subframe here, I am pretty sure it will go straight through. It will need treatment with new metal.

Oneball said:

I think you’ll get a better car for the same money

is the @CatmanV2 old car https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...ati&include-delivery-option=on&sort=relevance

Click to expand...

That does very much look like my old lady

C

It's definitely not as described, a badly prepared car and a bit suspicious on the mot front. But it was cheap.

If those rusty bits are solid when poked hard, you may get away with a good wire brush and treatment in the short term.

Personally all those things you describe added together would be more than enough for me to give it straight back, while you've got the chance.
But it's your money, and your car. Can you ever fall in love with it now?

FYI this is where the rotten chassis plates picked up in the previous MOTs should be lol

Hope all gets sorted. At the very least , you now know what the noise and feel is, and if this isn't the right one, you know it's worth chasing

I can't believe there is no squeaks or groans from the suspension after looking at your latest pictures and video.
Certainly hours of work there.
To put things into perspective here is a picture of my 11 year old Jaguar XF here in France front suspension having done 160,000 miles.

philw696 said:

I can't believe there is no squeaks or groans from the suspension after looking at your latest pictures and video.
Certainly hours of work there.
To put things into perspective here is a picture of my 11 year old Jaguar XF here in France front suspension having done 160,000 miles.
View attachment 91596

Click to expand...

No wonder same age cars worth a lot more on the continent

I'm desperately sorry for the experience you're having.
I will throw one other variable at you. Just to complicate things further
Because of this, I won't comment more on your current purchase.
I had planned to advertise my own car before now. Very, very reluctantly.
Covid19 put a stop to that.
I plan to advertise soon at £21k, so the 'forum price is £20k. Its the car on the left.
If you end up rejecting the wrapped car, you have another option and one that
won't bite you on both @ss cheeks

MAF260 said:

You're very fortunate that you have the option to 'reconsider' your purchase without losing a load of money. I'm sorry to say but I would have sent the car back already; it smacks of poor maintenance, budget ownership, a slightly less than honest dealer (who'd have thought it?!) and a massive future headache, ball ache and wallet ache.

I'd be looking at this instead. Last owner spent £14k on it less than 3k miles ago, it has new tyres, looks in decent condition and has the safety net of being sold by a dealer:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

Wood trim isn't to my taste, but suggests a more 'mature' owner and can also be swapped out/wrapped etc.

Click to expand...

Chalk and cheese comparing the two.. and wood can be hydrodipped as well. It comes out really well once lacquered and polished.

Mr Spoon said:

Buying blind is the new way. I'm mid 30s. Lots of people I know do this and have done for a few years now. Had I have seen this car in person, I lose DSR protection and I'd have not got underneath too much. I'd go as far too say most wouldn't either.

These inspections that are mentioned, only any good if they are local to the car. Otherwise you have to buy it then go from there. If that's in person, recourse is limited.

The good news for me is the distance selling regulations are present so even if the dealer, who as I've mentioned above, seems to have a good reputation, doesn't willingly help, I can force his hand. Albeit, it can take weeks and court action.

I'm off to another friends garage now to take another look.

No one has yet answered my question though, how much better can one be bought for £20k..... Reading other threads, rust seems to be an issue.

Thanks for all the replies, I'll keep posting updates

Click to expand...

Depends where it has lived during previous ownerships and also use over winter too. Seaside or Scotland is probably going to be rusty underneath unless it is a garage queen.
I bought wife's bmw blind during lockdown but the dealer gave 7+14 days to return and it was a large dealer not a one man and his gaffer tape.

Mr Spoon said:

letter to the dealer sent this afternoon. With all these things, it's about reasonableness but equally a business transaction is exactly that.

The dealer has said he would come back to me Monday, but I get the impression it will not be anything quite like I will be expecting.

Click to expand...

Dont take any $hite from them.
The distance selling regulations are very clear