3200GT Brake Pedal Travel

[Oneball]

It left Longbridge as a 998 Cooper, I raced it in that form for a fair few years. Managed to get it to put out 108bhp in that format but still wasn’t competitive against the Imps. Now running as a Cooper S with a 1293cc on a 45DCOE

 

[Oneball]

Some early road tests reported on the cars having quite long travel and the travel on mine is certainly longer then my 159 Alfa. During its life with me its had new disc and pads , hoses and the fluid changed every 2 years and has always been the same. To give you a reference l measured the travel from the middle left had side of the pedal to the floor and with the brake off it was 190 mm withe the brake applied it was 150 mm hope this reverence may help as you could be chasing a problem that is not.

Rex B
Manual 3200

Thanks for measuring Rex it’s a great help. I get 190mm off and 110mm applied.

 

[alfatwo]

Thanks for measuring Rex it’s a great help. I get 190mm off and 110mm applied.

The only thing that would cause that problem is the bore size in the brake master cylinder

Maybe the early 3200's had a different master cylinder!

Dave

 

[Oneball]

Air, bad fluid, pad push off or a failing hose would cause a long pedal too

 

[Oneball]

Conaero did say they changed the pedal travel on the later cars.

Nevertheless it’s not right, overtook a TT at the weekend who then decided he’d try and out brake me into the island and it really didn’t like stopping from speed.

 

[Rex B]

Dave mine is an early car chassis No just over 1,000 so an early and made in 1999 and mine only has 40mm travel pedal pushed by had probably 50 with my foot..

80mm of travel is quite a lot, did Autoshield think this was normal when they changed the fluid.?
I had a problem on my Mini years ago worse than yours and we bled the system for days and in the end we changed the master cylinder and we then has a great pedal., but not easy on a 3200.

You could try putting a clamp of each flexible individually to see if any one caliper or hose causing the problem., or try changing the flexible hoses for small bore ones, and also check the run out of the discs, can't think of much else you can do.

Regards

Rex B

 

[alfatwo]

Dave mine is an early car chassis No just over 1,000 so an early and made in 1999 and mine only has 40mm travel pedal pushed by had probably 50 with my foot..

80mm of travel is quite a lot, did Autoshield think this was normal when they changed the fluid.?
I had a problem on my Mini years ago worse than yours and we bled the system for days and in the end we changed the master cylinder and we then has a great pedal., but not easy on a 3200.

You could try putting a clamp of each flexible individually to see if any one caliper or hose causing the problem., or try changing the flexible hoses for small bore ones, and also check the run out of the discs, can't think of much else you can do.

Regards

Rex B

Rex, I wonder if the part numbers for the master cylinder changed over the life of the 3200's

might give a clue!

Dave

 

[Oneball]

Autoshield didn’t say they thought there was an issue. Around town it’s just a bit long it’s only at speed when it gets a bit sketchy

I’ve got some Goodridge hoses coming even if they aren’t an issue I thought it was worthwhile changing them.

As you say could be the discs. Didn’t get round the checking the run out, it doesn’t seem to get longer after an application when stationary compared with on the move.

 

[Oneball]

Rex, I wonder if the part numbers for the master cylinder changed over the life of the 3200's

might give a clue!

Dave

The parts catalogue only lists one master cylinder.

It also only lists one pedal and mount so if they did change the travel not sure how they did it.

 

[alfatwo]

Autoshield didn’t say they thought there was an issue. Around town it’s just a bit long it’s only at speed when it gets a bit sketchy

I’ve got some Goodridge hoses coming even if they aren’t an issue I thought it was worthwhile changing them.

As you say could be the discs. Didn’t get round the checking the run out, it doesn’t seem to get longer after an application when stationary compared with on the move.

And that TT was around 250 kilo's lighter than a 3200!

Dave

 

[alfatwo]

The parts catalogue only lists one master cylinder.

It also only lists one pedal and mount so if they did change the travel not sure how they did it.

Bore Diameter!

Dave

 

[Oneball]

Bore Diameter!

Dave

If they’d changed the bore you’d have thought it would list two master cylinders with different part numbers but it doesn’t.

 

[Oneball]

And that TT was around 250 kilo's lighter than a 3200!

Dave

Before that I just thought maybe all 3200 have a longish pedal but afterwards I’m now convinced it’s not right.

 

[alfatwo]

If they’d changed the bore you’d have thought it would list two master cylinders with different part numbers but it doesn’t.

Like lots of stuff for 3200's maybe the original spec parts don't exist an longer

As you know being a race car person changing the bore dia would make huge difference to the pedal travel

Dave

 

[Oneball]

Like lots of stuff for 3200's maybe the original spec parts don't exist an longer

Dave

You could be right.

And they’re Italians so there’s likely to be no logic at all. I ordered a left duct from Eurospares and what turned up was a right one with the left hand part number on it. Eurospares spoke to Italy “oh no our part numbers are all correct we are the factory after all, we’ll send you another left one”. What do you think turned up?

 

[77GR]

When comparing measurements for pedal displacement, make sure you state with or without engine running as the servo will actually pull the pedal down increasing the overall travel. Even for a time after switching off the servo will retain vacuum. Thus to ensure you are measuring at "engine off" you need to empty the servo of vacuum (actually it's fill it with air) by pumping it half a dozen times before measuring. A fun demonstration of this effect (and a reliable test to see if servo is functioning) is to put your foot on the brake and then start the engine, your foot will sink a little.

 

[Rex B]

If they do upgrade then they will often exhaust existing stock and then provide the updated part for replacements.
l have ferodo pads all round on mine and even though they are standard pads they still need to be warmed before they bite properly, sometimes l think the brakes are overcooled for normal driving and are only at there best when being used frequently , or perhaps its just a case of finding the right pads.

Rex B

 

[alfatwo]

Here's another thing, I've got a feeling the master cylinder shares the same part with Audi!

Good discussion this

Dave

 

[Rex B]

If you could change the master cylinder easily it would help but according to the manual you have to remove the engine so probably the last thing you want to do, so everything else has to be considered first.

Rex B

 

[Oneball]

If you could change the master cylinder easily it would help but according to the manual you have to remove the engine so probably the last thing you want to do, so everything else has to be considered first.

Rex B

Hopefully that’s just left hand drive. I reckon you could get it out if you remove the coil packs and cover. I hope so ‘cause this doesn’t look promising.