4200 CC Coupe upper rear control arms

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
i tried to buy new but they are out of production and have been for a while. Lower rear and front upper and lower are all new.
Ah- I misunderstood then. I thought you'd found new but weren't prepared to pay the asking....:whistle:
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
Oh dear, quick shopping list from Eurospares
Option 1 is really the only way to go
  1. all 8 wishbones £8600
  2. flanblocs and balljoints ( upper) is £3000 in parts alone, assuming the wishbones are fit to be further stressed to press fit flanbloc.
  3. Add in fasteners and 'stuff' plus some specialist labour to press fit flanbloc and alignment
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
Ah- I misunderstood then. I thought you'd found new but weren't prepared to pay the asking....:whistle:
Shows available to order for rear upper part 196779 common to 3200 / 4200 / GS. Guess they are all gone
 

Paulrv2

Junior Member
Messages
87
I think it would be fair to say that car is a bit YELLOW! I like it :D

It’s the original VW yellow but does look brighter than I remember. Bought the car 20 years ago as first car for my eldest daughter. It’s been sitting doing not much for 15+ years and got to the point of restore or let it go. Restore won and it was stripped back to bare metal and all rust fixed in the usual places - tailgate, bottom of doors and rear wheel arches - before being repainted. Interior is part done but still a little way to go.
 

Paulrv2

Junior Member
Messages
87
Shows available to order for rear upper part 196779 common to 3200 / 4200 / GS. Guess they are all gone
I did find a place with a couple of new ones in Europe but asking price was £1500+ each. Add shipping, import duties and tax and end result would have been an A$7k landed price tag. Too over the top. Buying and reconditioning the two SH units wil be closer to A$2000 - still not cheap but lot more palatable. Injection of the ball joints is very reasonable at A$100 each and the Replacement bushes about A$160 a pair.
 

Twinspark

Member
Messages
460
There are cheaper replacement bushes on Superformance and MIE, I believe they might be the same units and prices are very similar.
 

Paulrv2

Junior Member
Messages
87
I came across the SuperPerformance ones by chance so have ordered those. About 1/3 price of the Maserati item and probably better quality.
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
I came across the SuperPerformance ones by chance so have ordered those. About 1/3 price of the Maserati item and probably better quality.
is the speculation or based on experience? The bushes / flanbloc is much derided and discussed. Lasted 13 years on my own 3200. Seems to be quite intricate design, to cope with loads induced by fast + heavy car. Apparently same design in use on the Ferrari 550.
Any old car can have replacement aftermarket bushes that are "better". Depends on the received experience to decide what is better, given many cars that have poly bushes etc. I quite liked the original ride and handling.
 

Paulrv2

Junior Member
Messages
87
is the speculation or based on experience? The bushes / flanbloc is much derided and discussed. Lasted 13 years on my own 3200. Seems to be quite intricate design, to cope with loads induced by fast + heavy car. Apparently same design in use on the Ferrari 550.
Any old car can have replacement aftermarket bushes that are "better". Depends on the received experience to decide what is better, given many cars that have poly bushes etc. I quite liked the original ride and handling.
Super Performance seem to be primarily Ferrari and you are correct that the bushes are also a Ferrari part. Theirs are a copy using bonded rubber not the highly priced poly alternative. For the couple st it’s worth giving them a try.
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
I dont want to pour cold water on your plans but not all Flanblocs are made equal...
We have had this discussion before. And Im not the best person to explain why 'bonded' may not be a faithful reproduction of the original design, leaving something to be desired perhaps.
if you havent realised yet, there are no short cuts with Maseratis really, beyond the odd wiper washer bottle and such...!
 

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Paulrv2

Junior Member
Messages
87
Its not really about shortcuts but finding a solution when parts are no longer available. Given a choice I would have bought a new (or pattern) replacement but there aren't any available. If the Super Performance bushes don't work well then I'll replace them - cost penalty isn't great so the cheaper bushes are worth a try.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
My personal experience with Superformance shock bushes hasn’t been great. The Eurospares bushes for the wishbones were great, so if they are from the same place you will probably be fine.
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
I came across the SuperPerformance ones by chance so have ordered those. About 1/3 price of the Maserati item and probably better quality.
Does 66% discount necessarily = increased quality?
I am all opera getting a good deal. Have several sets of brake disks where the quality of plain cast iron material was easy to measure and compare. Lesss than an hour for one person to swap over too.
Suspension bushes are a once in an lifetime fit. For me anyway. The man hours to fit and align are so much more than cost of the components that unit price is less important that quality and durability. Interested to get real world feedback once you or others have these bushes fitted.
 

Paulrv2

Junior Member
Messages
87
I'll go off topic again with another work in progress project. Two wheeled this time to produce a near replica of an Ariel Colt Trials built by Ariel Competition Department for Geoff Duke in 1956. The Colt was a BSA parts bin bike using a plunger suspension C10L frame. The one-off Colt trials built for Geoff Duke use the same frame converted to swinging arm likely using a D5 Bantam or C12 subframe and swinging arm; not much available info to confirm what was used so it’s an educated guess. I went with the Tiger Cub equivalent. Attached pictures are current dry build of my replica, Geoff Duke on the factory version, and my restored original Colt.
 

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Paulrv2

Junior Member
Messages
87
Does 66% discount necessarily = increased quality?
I am all opera getting a good deal. Have several sets of brake disks where the quality of plain cast iron material was easy to measure and compare. Lesss than an hour for one person to swap over too.
Suspension bushes are a once in an lifetime fit. For me anyway. The man hours to fit and align are so much more than cost of the components that unit price is less important that quality and durability. Interested to get real world feedback once you or others have these bushes fitted.
Ok - answer to first question is not necessarily. Price and quality should relate but often don’t. I’ll share how I get on.
 

Paulrv2

Junior Member
Messages
87
is the speculation or based on experience? The bushes / flanbloc is much derided and discussed. Lasted 13 years on my own 3200. Seems to be quite intricate design, to cope with loads induced by fast + heavy car. Apparently same design in use on the Ferrari 550.
Any old car can have replacement aftermarket bushes that are "better". Depends on the received experience to decide what is better, given many cars that have poly bushes etc. I quite liked the original ride and handling.

Speculation and fingers crossed. If the arms sent to me from Eurospares had not been so old I would probably have left the bushes unchanged. However as the rubber is showing its age it seems sensible to replace them before fitting to the car. Time will tell if the aftermarket bushes and injection are a good way to go. Don’t seem to be many other options at present ☹️
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
good luck. Hopefully the comments are taken in the spirit offered. The aim is to challenge myths and relate honest experience.

Every pub "car expert" told me Italian cars are unreliable /rusty / terrible to drive. Also tell me how <German prestige brand> is opposite of previous list. Personally I have worked with three bee-em owners who climbed the 3 series mountain to reach M3 land and quickly descended as the air was too thin. Either the money burned away too quickly or their wives noticed the huge increase in outgoing costs.
 

Paulrv2

Junior Member
Messages
87
Thanks and yes it’s good to hear all the different views and preferences. It’s helpful input to making my own decision. As an aside I had a BMW experience that put me off them for good - mostly because of BMW’s response when I spoke to them. My 5 series burst into flames when driving home from work. The fire started in the electronics behind the dashboard and spread scaringly quickly. By the time I pulled up whole dash was alight and I had flames around my feet. Interior and engine bay of car was gutted in a few minutes.
 

Neil robinson

Junior Member
Messages
110
Hi all. I have a clunking noise on going over bumps on my 4200 2003 47000mls. Not all the time but on bad potholes etc. Any ideas what it could be, as coming from both sides but rhs more noticeable . Any pointers on repairs/ replacement would be great. Thanks very much, neil
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
It could be ball joints, anti roll bar drop links, shock bushes, wishbone bushes. You are going to have to have it up in the air and check it all.