4200 Sound Upgrade from stock (non-auditorium)

FIFTY

Member
Messages
1,801
12v Power Supply Install

It was rather cold today even working inside the car in the garage and had several layers on too!

With the help of Matt's tutorial I removed the back seats and side trim panels. http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/showthread.php/979-Passneger-rear-quarter-panel-trim-removal the 4x blots holding the back of the seats in place were on really tight I had to use a breaker bar to free them... seat sections are inside the house going to take this opportunity to clean thoroughly shampoo and condition prior to reinstalling... the side panels on the drivers have some damage on them probably from someone trying to get in/out who maybe struggled a bit (won't get into stereotypes)... so i will need to get these plastic welded...

I bought the Vibe 8 gauge wiring kit from halfords for £20 it has everything needed and more

Once the seats were out it went something like this:

Step 1 - isolate battery at switch... did this early so i did not forget... the amp wiring kit also tells you to take the fuse out of the fuse holder

Step 2 - strip the lining around the battery in the boot - this is done by unscrewing the black plastic shroud that is around the base of the lock. Pull the boot floor carpet free... then pull the boot seal back and pry the lining around the battery away firmly from the boot

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Step 3 - lay the power cable... the route is following the loom going in the battery void up through the parcel shelf and into the cabin. Run the cable along the loom down the side along the front of the back seat, near the middle there is a tunnel where the loom goes through and into the floor... popped it through there and along the carpet on the side of the transmission tunnel and into the centre console...cable tied took in the slack

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Step 4 - using crimp connectors wire the new power cable to the provided connector and a black spade connector to the ground cable on the provided clarion connector and fit to the amp... the black cable now gets ground to the chasis via the Allen bolt that holds the back of the centre console in place using the black spade crimp connector from the Vibe kit mentitled above... so the NIT end of the installaton should be complete now everything connected with the back of the centre console screwed down

Step 5 - wire the cable to the fuse, find sensible/Tidy path to battery... connect to the battery and insert fuse. Turn isolator switch on (car will be alarmed now so have your keys ready)

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Before reassembling the rest of the centre console and back seats test to make sure the amp is on and all speakers are powered correctly


It was very easy just a little time consuming... was hoping to find some old change but just a micro car smart car and a pink crayon lol. Cleaned out some crumbs using th
e vac but generally quite clean under there. I have disconnected the rear parcel shelf speakers while I was in there as many have reported much better sound quality without them.

I'll be installing the rear speakers next followed by the sub I bought the other day and fronts will go in maybe next month as I have a busy few weekends coming in January and I need to pull the car out of the garage and have the doors open as I intend to remove the door cards so it's not one I can work on for a bit in the evenings after work in the garage sadly
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
6,812
While you have the boot side trim out it is worth re positioning the F1 pump relay and fuses as shown below for easier access!
(if you have the cambiocorsa of course)
 

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rockits

Member
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6,438
Great work. Yes it was cold indeed as I was putting brush draught strips on the bottom of the garage doors!

Is it worth relocating that new red positive cable from where it is on the front of the terminal bolt to the spare 3rd terminal on the left on the bar at the back top of these positive terminal? Whilst re-routing the cable round the back & up. Would look neater but also if you ever had to take the battery out it would be quicker, easier & less disruptive.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
1,801
Yes that's the plan I need an appropriate nut and I am going to remove the slack from the cable trim it down and route it round the back

Been looking at some guidelines for cable gauge and fuses, i think I am just about ok running both the mini amp 200w rms and the 150w underseat sub through 3m of 8 gauge flex on a 60a fuse but only just! I might run abother length for the amp from the boot while the seats are out
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
3,337
Excellent work indeed!

I think your amp will be around 30 Amps and the under Seat jobber about 15 so you shouldn't have a problem. When you are running 2 loads from one supply
the fuse at the supply end should be to protect the cable and then the two loads should also have fuses for their particular rating. Personally I would make the fuse at the battery end as small as I could.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
1,801
Guys I'm having a problem with the amp and I cannot seem to stop it. It has been an intermittent fault since I first installed, thought I got rid of it by moving some wires around but its back with a vengeance.

The amp does not seem to want to stay on! It boots up stays on for about 4 seconds then switches off for 15 seconds and then comes back again for 4 seconds and off again for 15s etc. etc.

I was pretty sure the problem has something to do with the 12v accessory cable but I have re-done the splice connection so unless it is a loose connection at the other end of the wiring loom (clarion provided end) which seems as though it is connected fine. I have checked ALL of the other connections nothing has come loose. Only other thing I can think of is voltage drop through the 12v from the battery.... Help appreciated!
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
3,337
I'd suggest you put your meter on the supply while it is switching itself on and off and see if there is a break in the supply. If not try wiggling the wire to see if you can recreate the problem. Lastly is there a voltage drop from the battery when it is powered up?
 

ChrisH

Junior Member
Messages
87
Guys I'm having a problem with the amp and I cannot seem to stop it. It has been an intermittent fault since I first installed, thought I got rid of it by moving some wires around but its back with a vengeance.

The amp does not seem to want to stay on! It boots up stays on for about 4 seconds then switches off for 15 seconds and then comes back again for 4 seconds and off again for 15s etc. etc.

I was pretty sure the problem has something to do with the 12v accessory cable but I have re-done the splice connection so unless it is a loose connection at the other end of the wiring loom (clarion provided end) which seems as though it is connected fine. I have checked ALL of the other connections nothing has come loose. Only other thing I can think of is voltage drop through the 12v from the battery.... Help appreciated!
Sounds a bit like a heat / overload cut out to me. I haven't read your full thread but are your speakers wired right? If you have them unbalanced (i.e. the wrong combination of series / parallel wiring driver to driver) you could be down at say 1 ohm which is going to kill most amps... they might cope for a short time before they trip. That sort of thing could get worse over time as the thermocouple wears out.

Could also just be a faulty amp though so I would test on a bench if possible to see how it behaves.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
30,851
Zep has the right troubleshooting and I suspect ChrisH has put his finger on the issue. Speaker short, overheat or sadly DOA

C
 

ChrisH

Junior Member
Messages
87
Having 're read a bit closer it does sound more power related. Why not get a spare battery wired direct to the amp. Send the 12v on feed direct to it as well. Easy way to rule in or out power issues.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
1,801
Thanks for the advice guys, I will crack out the multimeter tonight and see if I can make any sense of it. If it's over/under voltage that will be apparent. It is as though the 12v+ comes and goes but the frequency of it is quite regular as I described about 15s off 5s on

I used the standard speaker wiring already installed in the car, not sure how it's wired. I doubt it's overheating as it is pretty immediate when the car is cold

Should be able to test it off one of my other cars to see if it powers up, all else fails I'll contact the place I bought it from as there is nothing in the trouble shooting guide for this kind of fault
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
1,801
Yes indeed I do have a constant 12v (12.8v at the centre console end of the cable and 13.6v at the fuse by the battery) so I'm getting a touch of voltage drop due to the cable gauge and length I could probably lop off 500 mm from the cable reducing it to 3000mm which will help

The multimeter tests made apparent a bad earth... Im pretty sure.. as I moved it and it's now working fine. I will get some sand paper on the original bit I chose as the part of the chasis which protrudes out of the centre console does seem to be coated in something and not just bare metal

I installed the rear speakers and it sounds very very good already. With the extra umph from the amp the volume is only on 5 and it's a really full sound

Next problem... I was trying to update the firmware and my loudlink and I somehow corrupted it... waaahhhhh!

Once I fix that it's on to front component speakers and then the under seat sub install
 

ChrisH

Junior Member
Messages
87
Sounds good!

Might be worth checking speaker impedance if you can at some stage because manufacturer wiring can be strange. I recently did a similar 're wire on a L322 Range Rover which is pretty fundamental (the amount of cr4p you rip out is unbelievable) but I know it still needs a little tweak as at high volumes it will cut as the amp overloads... it's only at rather cranked levels though so it probably serves as a good reminder I'm too old to have it that loud. On the Range Rover as there are something like 12 or 13 speakers wired to 4 channels there are quite a few combinations of how to link them... and I got the impression the 4200 wasn't dissimilar so if you're using the factory harness for the speakers... the same probably applies.

If it's working though enjoy! Assuming my purchase goes ahead it's probably only a matter of time before I also look to update the ageing tech.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
1,801
I'm looking at installing this Kenwood amp, discussed with another forumer that it won't fit under the seat so I will put it under the boot floor as it is a nice fit in there.

http://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/car/amp_spk/com/KSC-SW11/

The install instructions say to wire in to the front or rear left +- and right +-


It does not mention if I should do this post or pre-amp... what do you guys think?


If I can do it post amp i was thinking to extend the speaker cables from the disconnected rear shelf sub/speakers into the boot

Although I will still need to run the 12V switched cable and the remote for the sub to/from the boot and centre console anyway so it doesn't make much difference to run the speaker cables from the NIT
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
3,337
Personally I would take it from before the same so you don't have any signal degradation.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
1,801
Car is back out for the year, had a long drive yesterday after putting the centre console back together and the amp problem is back.

Potentially could be getting interference from the magneti marelli NIT as when i remove the amp and test it out of the centre console it works fine.

I will remove it and test it again while on a drive if the problem goes away then I will relocate it to the boot.. but if it carries on then it's definitely faulty and I'll send it back
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
1,801
I think I have finally figured it out... this really is electrical engineering for dummies (the dummy being me)...

Did the multimeter test with the engine running and the power feed is averaging 11.2v with the odd spike up to 16v... so It is voltage drop for sure

What was confusing me was that I came home plugged the car onto the trickle charger and I tested it with a completely charged newish battery compared to the car running on the alternator.

Few solutions out of this first one I will try is to take all of the slack out of the 12v red from the battery, think there is 1m I can trim back quite easily and see if that reduces the distance enough to keep it over 12v

Option 2 rip out the 8 gauge 12v and replace with 4 gauge

Option 3 extend speaker cables to boot and mount amp there - this does involve extending 8 cables to and another 8 cables from the boot so just getting 4 gauge might be easier/cheaper
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
30,851
What's the voltage when the amp's disconnected, Shogi? I suspect your amp *may* be telling you of another problem.....

C
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
1,801
Reading taken with the amp disconnected C

Didn't take the reading with the amp connected up