Brexit Deal

Wattie

Member
Messages
6,035
Are you saying that because he didn’t “romp it” that calls into question the result? Really?

Trump called his win a landside, so by that measure Biden also had a landslide. Biden won by more votes than Trump in ‘16 in most of the states.

However, we clearly differ in our view, so let’s leave it here and get back to watching trucks in Dover.
I wasn’t saying that in simple terms.

What I will say and I suspect you’ll agree is that it is absolutely incredulous that the nation that promotes itself as the ultimate bastion of democracy (to the extent that it exports such democracy through war around the world- where it suits) finds itself in a scenario that;

1it’s own results are questioned because people who are dead voted;
2electronic voting machines are suspected of switching votes
3numerous voters are registered as having voted in multiple states
4 voters who claim they never received their ballots are shown to have voted.
5 postal ballot signatures are unchecked but counted nevertheless.
6 weeks after the election...there is still no disputed result.

Remind me why the United Banana States carries the clout it does?

It’ll bring us all down with it.
 

Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,507
Misled, Missold and manipulated.

The British people were just unaware not stupid. Look at the PPI scandal and the constant over-selling of pointless insurance, (extra long warranty, phone insurance when it's already on your home insurance etc) they are not as informed as they should be.

The Pro-Europe campaign was woeful. Project Fear was a poor tactic, it played on a 'possible future' which we all know cannot be fully substantiated. The Pro-Europe campaign should have played on what the EU has done positively for the common man, such as free-phone data abroad, EU wide Car insurance, Newquay and Doncaster Airports, Euoprean wide consumer cover so if you buy parts from KJB you can get your money back etc etc etc. If people were aware of this
Sorry, utter garbage. I’m British and I was not unaware, nor was I misled, missold or manipulated. It is possible some were, just as it’s possible that some remain voters were misled by some of the project fear garbage.

Democracy is not telling people they were stupid because they didn’t vote the same as you.
 

2b1ask1

Centenary Club
Messages
17,019
Sorry, utter garbage. I’m British and I was not unaware, nor was I misled, missold or manipulated. It is possible some were, just as it’s possible that some remain voters were misled by some of the project fear garbage.

Democracy is not telling people they were stupid because they didn’t vote the same as you.

^^^^^ Again; this ^^^^
 

spkennyuk

Member
Messages
4,737
So how can you say with any kind of authority that everything will be ok? You can’t.

What I do know is that a friend who owns a Custom Clearance Agent (Eurolink Services), has trebled his staff knowing that he will be so much busier with all of the documents trucks will need.

He’s worked at Dover for 20+ years. And in his words “it will be chaos without a deal”.

And that’s not in the press. That’s from someone who is at the coalface (so to speak).
When the procedure is set the drivers will be told the procedure. Not much point in giving two sets of instructions now is there. All the drivers ever want to know is what they have to do on that day and what their loads are for that week or next few days.

Amazed you have just mentioned your "friend" even more amazed he has trebbled his staff now in order to cope with the extra paperwork. Mostly because you dont need to be based at Dover to do the customs clearance. You only need the electronic Chief badge for Dover port. Any agent anywhere in the country can clear goods at Dover or any other port with the correct Chief badges. I could be sat at a coffee shop anywhere in the world and with remote access do a customs clearance in the UK.

Most freight agents are working with minimum staff at their offices due to covid at the moment. The rest are working from home using remote access.

Im not trying to speak with authority. Just the correct information based on the systems that are already in place and have been for many years at the coal face

Its a bit like the 40% duty rate you quoted previously under WTO which was going to be applied for a bit of kit you order. Which was actually anti dumping rate which is entirely different. WTO rates for electronics and solar equipment is nothing like 40%.

Still not sure what your covid point was.

Still no reason logical or logistical that shipments will be delayed for upto 2 days which was the point i made about the article in question. The way its being reported in sensationalist and inaccurate. Which is the point i made.
 
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Zep

Administrator
Messages
4,699
I wasn’t saying that in simple terms.

What I will say and I suspect you’ll agree is that it is absolutely incredulous that the nation that promotes itself as the ultimate bastion of democracy (to the extent that it exports such democracy through war around the world- where it suits) finds itself in a scenario that;

1it’s own results are questioned because people who are dead voted;
2electronic voting machines are suspected of switching votes
3numerous voters are registered as having voted in multiple states
4 voters who claim they never received their ballots are shown to have voted.
5 postal ballot signatures are unchecked but counted nevertheless.
6 weeks after the election...there is still no disputed result.

Remind me why the United Banana States carries the clout it does?

It’ll bring us all down with it.
I have been following this and I have seen no actual evidence of any of the points you have listed. I have seen the reports, and I have seen the details where they are debunked. Where evidence has been provided is it circumstantial at best. I have also seen that the legal cases presented by the Trump campaign do not actually allege fraud. I have also noted that where the republicans have done well in down ballot races, they only allege fraud on the one they lost. This, I believe any right minded person will see, is an attempt destroy the system because it didn’t return the result they wanted and it is fairly likely to fail.

It is not surprising, but still disappointing, that you chose to perpetuate these myths. However it’s clear we do agree on one thing, that it is a stain on democracy.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
6,035
It is not surprising, but still disappointing, that you chose to perpetuate these myths. However it’s clear we do agree on one thing, that it is a stain on democracy.
I'm not perpetuating myths and I didn’t once mention fraud. Indeed Trumps lawyers have stepped back from calling it such as u outlined.
I’m merely pointing out that it’s incredulous that a sitting President has the opportunity to use 1-6 above to question the results against him because the basis of the election and who votes in it (along with the technology involved) is so open to question.
It should be a watertight procedure.
And you’re correct, he’s not questioning the “system”in areas he won.

It’s an astonishing situation and a very dangerous one but given the state of American politics not surprising. After all, the Democrats spent most of the last 4 years trying to prove Trumps previous election win relied on Russian involvement and attempted at each and every opportunity to Impeach him for such.

Bit rich therefore for Biden to claim now that he wants to unite the country under his win and expect Trump not to go down without kicking and screaming!
 
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GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
Messages
11,232
In preparation for Brexit the French today implemented the checks that they will have to do for the 1st January in the event of no deal.
The result. A completely clogged up M20.

Oh what a surprise. Those who say there won’t be any delays. You’re talking out your ****.
The only surprising thing for me is that from the 9am start of checks it took until 11am for the traffic to build up. And 2pm for them to shut the motorway.
 

doodlebug

Member
Messages
617
In preparation for Brexit the French today implemented the checks that they will have to do for the 1st January in the event of no deal.
The result. A completely clogged up M20.

Oh what a surprise. Those who say there won’t be any delays. You’re talking out your ****.
The only surprising thing for me is that from the 9am start of checks it took until 11am for the traffic to build up. And 2pm for them to shut the motorway.
Pretty obvious to all of us who traded with the EU before the 1990s. It really was an utter utter ball ache.
 

spkennyuk

Member
Messages
4,737
In preparation for Brexit the French today implemented the checks that they will have to do for the 1st January in the event of no deal.
The result. A completely clogged up M20.

Oh what a surprise. Those who say there won’t be any delays. You’re talking out your ****.
The only surprising thing for me is that from the 9am start of checks it took until 11am for the traffic to build up. And 2pm for them to shut the motorway.
So what your saying is you read a new article that said the French authorities had caused delays.

The discussion we had was about delays at export and import into the UK due to additional customs paperwork.

Lets face it. Its not the first time the French authorities and unions have decided to cause chaos.

As ive said many times. There is no reason logical or logistical why there should be delays from customs paperwork for goods leaving uk ports for europe or arriving at UK ports with goods from europe.

They French authorities could snag every single arrival at Calais tomorrow or on 1st January but that wasnt the discussion we were having.

Quite funny you mention talking out of arses really :lol2:
 

GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
Messages
11,232
So what your saying is you read a new article that said the French authorities had caused delays.

The discussion we had was about delays at export and import into the UK due to additional customs paperwork.

Lets face it. Its not the first time the French authorities and unions have decided to cause chaos.

As ive said many times. There is no reason logical or logistical why there should be delays from customs paperwork for goods leaving uk ports for europe or arriving at UK ports with goods from europe.

They French authorities could snag every single arrival at Calais tomorrow or on 1st January but that wasnt the discussion we were having.

Quite funny you mention talking out of arses really :lol2:
No point pointing out the obvious as you have no idea what reality is.

78142
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
4,383
If you were the EU and in the middle of Brexit negotiations and wanted to “test” a new customs system you’d make it as difficult and clunky as possible to strengthen your bargaining position.
 

GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
Messages
11,232
If you were the EU and in the middle of Brexit negotiations and wanted to “test” a new customs system you’d make it as difficult and clunky as possible to strengthen your bargaining position.
Apparently it was a test to see how quickly they could process trucks coming into their country.
As they would be one of the biggest losers should freight from the UK to France be held up too long.

You've go to remember. We're not the only ones who lose out in a no deal Brexit.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
4,383
Apparently it was a test to see how quickly they could process trucks coming into their country.
As they would be one of the biggest losers should freight from the UK to France be held up too long.

You've go to remember. We're not the only ones who lose out in a no deal Brexit.
Exactly, so call me cynical but you’d make it work as bad as you possibly could.
 

GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
Messages
11,232
Exactly, so call me cynical but you’d make it work as bad as you possibly could.
Cynical! :rofl5:

But as a cynic myself, I would also want to get things through as quickly as possible as the knock on effect to French (& European) industries could be huge.

So even if you settled for a middle of the road (they had a go without putting themselves out), it's a great big clusterfuck.

But let's be honest here, the chances of a deal with a month left? 25-1? and I'm being generous.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
4,383
Cynical! :rofl5:

But as a cynic myself, I would also want to get things through as quickly as possible as the knock on effect to French (& European) industries could be huge.

So even if you settled for a middle of the road (they had a go without putting themselves out), it's a great big clusterfuck.

But let's be honest here, the chances of a deal with a month left? 25-1? and I'm being generous.
That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m trying to say is yesterday’s delays were intentionally fabricated.

You’d want it to work as quickly as possible after Brexit but at the moment whilst negotiating you’d want the no deal scenario to seem as bad as possible hence the delays yesterday.
 

GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
Messages
11,232
That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m trying to say is yesterday’s delays were intentionally fabricated.

You’d want it to work as quickly as possible after Brexit but at the moment whilst negotiating you’d want the no deal scenario to seem as bad as possible hence the delays yesterday.
I understand your point. And it makes sense if they were doing this test last year for example as it gives the EU a great bargaining chip.
But as we are a month from Brexit (deal or no deal) it doesn't make a lot of sense to do it as a bargaining chip.

What does make sense, to me at least, is to run a test to see how bad it will be and to somehow work out what they can do to minimise the delays.
Based on yesterday. Not a lot.

The other issue with Dover, is that there is such a lack of space to do the processing.
If it was somewhere like Felixstow then they could have hundreds of check terminals (bit like at the airport) where they could process the trucks, delays and all.
Dover is so cramped, that it is physically not possible.

Hence the building of 5 (the first being at Ashford) of these customs processing places. Obviously it will get sorted eventually, but for at least 4-6 month my part of Kent will be an absolute mess on the roads!