Brexit Deal

dgmx5

Member
Messages
1,142
So @Wattie, as the lead Brexiteer on this forum, and this is a genuine question albeit with the benefit of hindsight, which of the politicians do you think would have delivered Brexit on time and in a palatable manner?

I ask because it is clear Mrs May has not done so, and I empathise with the frustration that people have with the situation we are now in, but I wonder whether that is because she has deliberately or incompetently sabotaged negotiations or because no one else has the appetite to actually deliver it and she has become the de facto whipping boy.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
Good question.
IMO May had all the tools to deliver it- but didn’t even give it a chance.
Our sole card to a “palatable deal” was “no deal”.
Europe would have cratered if we’d been serious about walking away- like she said we would.

Lots of insiders say she regarded Brexit as a problem to be solved, rather than an opportunity. She opposed the advice on so many occasions it beggars belief and makes “sabotage” calls look credible.

Now, God knows....”no deal” seems to be off the table and Europe won’t refuse any Extension request so I can see the whole thing drifting along,..... then conveniently cancelled.

Not sure anyone in either of the big 2 parties now have a snowflakes hope in **** of getting anything through with enough support.

Farage would walk away in any environment if he was given the chance. At least he would fight the UK corner......
 
Messages
6,001
As we approach the European elections I am in a conundrum
As an ardent leaver what do I do on 23May?
Spoil the paper?
Not vote at all?
Vote for someone I know nothing about and perpetuate the system?
We are still technically in Europe (at the time of writing)

Help!!
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
Farage would walk away in any environment if he was given the chance. At least he would fight the UK corner......

Farage is just in this whole process for self promotion. He may be a great speaker, and with that a great politician, however, he has one major flaw.
His policies.
This is why he has lost every election other than the very low turn out Euro elections. Although I'd be interested to see how he does this time round as his constituency is one that is suffering most under the economic situation caused by Brexit. (which is also not too far from me).

It is now generally accepted that a No Deal Brexit would be catastrophic for the UK, and Europe and would put us in recession for a very long time, and put a large proportion of the country into poverty.
This is why it is off the table as an option. Which can only be a good thing. If you think any different then you are not looking at the bigger picture.

So what is the options from here?

Stay? - Nope, not what was voted for.
Stay in the customs union? - Nope not what we voted for.
Hard Boarder in Ireland? - Never in a million years. Keeping the peace is more important than leaving the EU.
Do a deal? - Nope the EU are not budging an inch (or should that be 2.54 centimetres).

So where does that leave us? Remaining, where we can change from within.
At some point (probably in the next few years) the EU will implode. There are a list of countries which cannot sustain their spending and debt levels and will 'go bust'.
At this point the EU will crumble, and as we kept our own currency we will not be tied to the ensuing chaos and will be in a position of strength and be able to profit.

We should be like the Americans in WW2 (and WW1 for that matter), wait until the opposition are out of ideas and profit as they begin to falter.

The EU is stagnating, so rather than us being the ones who have to count the cost of the break up, wait a couple of years as I'm pretty sure they're more than capable of ballsing it up for themselves, which won't cost us a penny.
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
As we approach the European elections I am in a conundrum
As an ardent leaver what do I do on 23May?
Spoil the paper?
Not vote at all?
Vote for someone I know nothing about and perpetuate the system?
We are still technically in Europe (at the time of writing)

Help!!

We should vote a load of idiots in. Oh hang on......
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
Farage is just in this whole process for self promotion. He may be a great speaker, and with that a great politician, however, he has one major flaw.
His policies.
This is why he has lost every election other than the very low turn out Euro elections. Although I'd be interested to see how he does this time round as his constituency is one that is suffering most under the economic situation caused by Brexit. (which is also not too far from me).

It is now generally accepted that a No Deal Brexit would be catastrophic for the UK, and Europe and would put us in recession for a very long time, and put a large proportion of the country into poverty.
This is why it is off the table as an option. Which can only be a good thing. If you think any different then you are not looking at the bigger picture.

So what is the options from here?

Stay? - Nope, not what was voted for.
Stay in the customs union? - Nope not what we voted for.
Hard Boarder in Ireland? - Never in a million years. Keeping the peace is more important than leaving the EU.
Do a deal? - Nope the EU are not budging an inch (or should that be 2.54 centimetres).

So where does that leave us? Remaining, where we can change from within.
At some point (probably in the next few years) the EU will implode. There are a list of countries which cannot sustain their spending and debt levels and will 'go bust'.
At this point the EU will crumble, and as we kept our own currency we will not be tied to the ensuing chaos and will be in a position of strength and be able to profit.

We should be like the Americans in WW2 (and WW1 for that matter), wait until the opposition are out of ideas and profit as they begin to falter.

The EU is stagnating, so rather than us being the ones who have to count the cost of the break up, wait a couple of years as I'm pretty sure they're more than capable of ballsing it up for themselves, which won't cost us a penny.
I think your argument re the Eu doing a deal is fundamentally flawed....it was never in their interest to negotiate and encourage anyone else to leave -and they

May simply caved in.....and now remainer Mps have forced “ no deal” off the table the Eu has no incentive whatsoever to negotiate.

Totally ridiculous.

Also disagree on the "no deal" perception. I think most would take it and indeed if Farage threatened it you'd find we'd end up with a far better deal than the BOLLOX May achieved. The Eu economy is ****** now and a "no deal" would be far worse for it than us....hence they'd do a last minute deal.

Eu needs to trade with us and we need them- they cant afford to cut off their noses to spite their face!

Hard border will not happen- Europe have already said that.....which makes the "backstop" our idiot PM negotiated even more unbelieveable and yet another sign oh her stupidity.

So where does that leave us.....a fudge probably,.....BRINO (Brexit In Name Only- after a 2 party fudge deal, which will alienate the public) As a leaver I'd rather remain than have a fudge and no control.

End of Tories/Labour?
New Brexit /remain parties formed ....possibly political fighting in future....

Ps re Farage, his flaws are minimal compared with the "deceit and dishonesty" that our current party Mp's have demonstrated- they (remain Mp's) have clearly acted in "self interest' often against the votes of their constituencies. They all voted to enacted A50 and then did everything in their powers to block it...with Mays total incompetence leading the way and providing the ammunition for them to do so- negotiating a deal so bad that no-one in their right mind would accept it!

Political landscape change is the only sure outcome.
 
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MaserCoupe

Member
Messages
564
i'm very much liking your avatar :thumb3:
Those were the days L2s and thankyou!!! An LM002 and a Countach. circa 1987. When the outrageous was possible...The first cars I ever washed and got taken out in... it took me effing ages to clean that LM :lol::lol2: and my arms still hurt just thinking about it..... This was at my friends showroom Heathmans of London in Parsons Green. It’s where I fell in love with Lambos along with dreams of owning an Italian Exotica. Some of the best times I ever had. Truly Great times and the showroom was always packed solid with Lambos and super rare Masers...Goodness me how the Italians do know how to give you a charismatic car! Sorry to go off topic :D:boss::D
 
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GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
I think your argument re the Eu doing a deal is fundamentally flawed....it was never in their interest to negotiate and encourage anyone else to leave -and they

May simply caved in.....and now remainer Mps have forced “ no deal” off the table the Eu has no incentive whatsoever to negotiate.

Totally ridiculous.

Also disagree on the "no deal" perception. I think most would take it and indeed if Farage threatened it you'd find we'd end up with a far better deal than the BOLLOX May achieved. The Eu economy is ** now and a "no deal" would be far worse for it than us....hence they'd do a last minute deal.

Eu needs to trade with us and we need them- they cant afford to cut off their noses to spite their face!

Hard border will not happen- Europe have already said that.....which makes the "backstop" our idiot PM negotiated even more unbelieveable and yet another sign oh her stupidity.

So where does that leave us.....a fudge probably,.....BRINO (Brexit In Name Only- after a 2 party fudge deal, which will alienate the public) As a leaver I'd rather remain than have a fudge and no control.

End of Tories/Labour?
New Brexit /remain parties formed ....possibly political fighting in future....

Ps re Farage, his flaws are minimal compared with the "deceit and dishonesty" that our current party Mp's have demonstrated- they (remain Mp's) have clearly acted in "self interest' often against the votes of their constituencies. They all voted to enacted A50 and then did everything in their powers to block it...with Mays total incompetence leading the way and providing the ammunition for them to do so- negotiating a deal so bad that no-one in their right mind would accept it!

Political landscape change is the only sure outcome.

This was always the issue. MP's knowing that a no deal Brexit would be a catastrophe for everyone, yet their constituents want to leave.

Surely in this instance the biggest failing is not informing the country of the pluses and minuses of Brexit before the referendum?
All of this rubbish could have been avoided.

There's little point in 'informing the country' now as one side will just say it's "project fear" or some other buzz word or phrase.
This is why we should never had the vote in the first place.

You want a binary answer to a question that has multiple facets. It just isn't possible.

Just like I'm beginning to feel Brexit just isn't possible.
 
Messages
6,001
This was always the issue. MP's knowing that a no deal Brexit would be a catastrophe for everyone, yet their constituents want to leave.
Broadly agree but MP's did not 'know'
Nobody does
They only put forward their vested arguments
You may agree with them and that is fine
I do not and that is fine too
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
Broadly agree but MP's did not 'know'
Nobody does
They only put forward their vested arguments
You may agree with them and that is fine
I do not and that is fine too
Exactly.
Especially if it involves bankers and economists making predictions......on which mp’s base their views.
Ridiculous...... how come we never hear the ECB view on the effect of no deal on the Eurozone.........