Credit Hire Vehicles - A Cautionary Tale

makeshiftUK

Member
Messages
1,090
On Nov 14th 2019, I went for my yearly hospital checkup over in Morden, Surrey - I have a chronic ear condition which, whilst being in a stable and manageable state now, requires yearly attention just to make sure 'all is OK'. My ENT consultant was running 20mins late, so I waited patiently to be seen - afterwards, I returned to my BMW, and to my absolute horror I saw a 4x4 parked in front of my car with noticeable damage to its side... and the obliterated remains of my front bumper.

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What had happened, was the driver of the offending vehicle (XC90) reversed into the space adjacent to my BMW, decided it wouldn't fit and proceeded to exit the space - and in doing so, took part of my bumper with it. In doing so the XC90 driver damaged both her car and her tyre, deflating the possibility of driving off and escaping blame. Fortunately she admitted fault, apologised - copious amounts of photos were taken, and I took photos of her driving licence and noted contact details. I love my 530i - I've had her for almost 7 years, and whilst she's an old girl, she's more or less a part of the family. I attribute this experience partially to my loathing of 4x4s and SUVs driven by incompetent drivers which effectively weaponise these beasts into road-going tanks.

Slightly annoyingly, the XC90 was recovered fairly rapidly - I ended up waiting a couple of hours for my recovery vehicle due to 'unprecedented demand', and missed my team work get-together in town frustratingly. Whilst I was confident that my BMW's front wheels looked relatively 'true', my engine undertray was hanging on by a thread and without tools available I couldn't remove the undertray nor assess the damage to confidently say it was safe to drive home.

This is where it gets interesting. I of course report this to my insurance provider, Admiral. At this stage, they offer me the use of a courtesy car to keep me going - and I wholeheartedly accept. Why? Because since living with my wife, we have 'always' been a 2 car family - one car for the school run/shopping etc, the other serving my need to journey here there and everywhere for a living selling storage area networks (SANs). This is where the confusion begins - because I logically assume the offer of a courtesy car was part of the service 'wraparound' as part of my insurance policy... instead as I learn later when I start to pay attention, is that the responsibility lay squarely with me for the financial burden of this hire car in the event the bill was un-recoverable from the 3rd party. Yes, the credit hire car company read out loud the T's and C's chapter-and-verse over the phone, and I knowingly agreed to these quite thinking it would be madness to think that I would ever be liable for recovery of the hire car costs, given I was the victim in this fiasco. Interestingly, the insurer of the 3rd party called me offering a hire car a few days later - and I declined this offer, on the basis I had organised my own courtesy vehicle 'via' my own insurer.

So, 2 days later on the 16th Nov 2019, a credit hire vehicle was deposited at my house... a brand new 420d. Not really my cup of tea (and not an estate), but it would do the job until I sorted out my damaged car... which I fully intended to repair and get back on the road, subject to getting her MOT'd. A few weeks pass, no engineer turns up to assess my vehicle, and instead it appears they conclude from my pictures that it's a total loss write off - but I could buy her back as Category N, receive a payout and choose to repair her 'and make good' myself to get her back on the road again. The payout sum was something like £1300, which more or less covered the cost of the parts and the bodyshop work.

On the 2nd December 2019, 2.5 weeks after the accident, I receive the settlement amount as a cheque, which I promptly deposit into my bank account - and on the same day, I fire off an order of all the parts required to repair my mullered front-end. Fortunately most of the parts were in stock, and I had them delivered direct to the bodyshop in nearby Horley, ready to commence work on the 6th December. Given the repair work had only just begun, I asked to hang onto the hire car a little longer before relinquishing it on the 9th Dec... 4 days ahead of my car repairs completing on the 13th Dec when I drove her home.

And that I thought was that... leaving my insurer and the 3rd party's insurer to duke it out over liability etc.

In February this year, quite thinking all the above was behind us, the car credit hire company get in touch, advising us that they've been unable to recover their costs for the provision of my hire car from the 3rd party's insurer, and that I was to be 'on standby' to provide further assistance/supporting evidence to assist with their case. What I didn't explain earlier, was that whilst I was using our BMW at the time as a named driver, the car is in my wife's name, and as a result all the paperwork/hire car correspondence is firmly aligned to her. The 23 days of usage of the 420d credit hire vehicle came to... just over £7.5k... yes, you're reading correctly. I doubt renting a 458 from a luxury hire company for that length of time would be much different in cost. Through this process, I now understand that credit hire companies charge incredible amounts for car hire... partially to cover themselves for the length of time elapsed (potentially years) for recovering their costs, and partially because they're an unscrupulous bunch. My perception of matters, is that these credit hire vehicle companies are literally tripping over themselves to offer their services in the event of situations just like mine, on the basis that drivers are entitled to an equivalent temporary replacement of their cars in the event of accidents... or something along those lines.

Soon after February, things escalate to the credit hire vehicles designated law firm - many conversations with said firm ensue, and it's explained to us that as part of accepting the credit hire vehicle, we also accepted 'credit hire vehicle indemnity insurance' which provides us with protection in the event of non-recovery of costs... i.e. we wouldn't have to pay the 7k or whatever it was... provided we demonstrated full compliance with the legal team with their pursuit of the recovery of costs. Many conversations and emails ensued, including my bank statements, my wife's bank statements, Q's and A's and the compiling of a statement to document the need for the hire vehicle, the reasoning for the duration of hire etc. I can't remember exactly when it was, but during Summer this year we were 'warned' that this had the potential to go to court if the 3rd party insurer refused to cough up the money. What's worse, is that it would be my wife attending court... not me, given everything was in her name.

Sure enough, the 3rd party insurer remained stubborn... and a court summons was issued to my wife only last week, albeit for virtual attendance in early January next year... a great black cloud that would hang over our heads for the seasonal break. Personally, I don't think I would have had an issue attending court virtually or physically myself, but to make my wife undergo this is another matter entirely. Non-attendance wasn't really an option however, as this would backtrack on the need to demonstrate compliance in relation to the credit hire insurance policy above.

I spoke to my designated contact at the law firm this week in an attempt to understand the probability of this actually going to court - they were emphatic about their intentions to try and resolve this outside of court, but all attempts to settle with the 3rd party insurer had resulted in silence. My contact agreed to make a final offer to the 3rd party insurer, pressing hard the likelihood of them being liable for the entire amount should court proceed ahead. I also asked if it were possible that I settled the cost myself - and in doing so, avoid having to make my wife endure the experience of court.

However, I was reduced to relief, jubilation and a handful of man-tears this evening when I received an email from the legal team, advising that the 3rd party insurer had accepted the settlement offer, and that court proceedings were now no longer required. All in all, from the date of the accident, that puts this at just under 13 months from start to finish... and it feels that an anvil has been lifted off of the shoulders of my wife and I. In a bizarre twist of fate, it actually happens to be our 10 year wedding anniversary today... an interesting way to remember it, perhaps!
 

makeshiftUK

Member
Messages
1,090
The below is what I learnt from this process:

  1. Do not assume a credit hire vehicle = courtesy car from your insurer; I did, and my ignorance was my undoing
  2. If you need to accept a courtesy car (and you're not at fault), try and get it organised via the 3rd party's insurer... this in and of itself is an admission of fault, and given they'll have 'skin in the game' by undertaking their own cost in provisioning a temporary vehicle to you, they'll be incentivised to a) minimise their costs and b) expedite the payment/settlement of your vehicle
  3. If you accept a credit hire vehicle that you've organised via your insurer or otherwise, check their vehicle rates... the 420d we hired was something like £255 + VAT per day - balance this rate against the possible duration you'll have the car for... the larger the possible cost, the harder it'll be to get the other insurer to pay up
  4. Ask yourself, do you really need a credit hire vehicle? We've always been a 2 car family... and I was stubborn that we should have one, because there would be periods I'd stay away from home for a few days, and I wouldn't want to deprive my wife of a vehicle to get our kids to school, the shopping etc. Be comfortable that you can stand your ground and justify the need for one with respect to your circumstances
  5. The law states that in this regard, if you need a hire car, to pursue all means at your disposal to keep costs as low as possible... is it cheaper to hire a car off your own back, and claim back the costs from the 3rd party's insurer?
  6. If this happened to my QP5, I suspect I would have had a nicer vehicle... which would scare me even more if the vehicle hire company provided something of 'similar specification'... God knows what the hire cost of that would have come to

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and in doing so understand the potential pitfalls and also perhaps some of my poor decision making. I feel better getting this 'off my chest' and hope that someone else can benefit from our experiences.
 

RobinL

Member
Messages
456
An interesting and not unexpected insurance company conundrum.
I had issues many years ago with what I can only describe as collusion within the insurance industry to avoid liabilities in any way possible. I was later advised by a good friend and superb legal eagle.
If the accident is genuinely ' no fault' as this was, take all the insurance details (as you did), take photographs, as you did and then......
Go to your solicitors and take legal action against the other driver.....
They will then have to involve their insurer
Leave your insurer out of it - they aren't needed.
If you need s hire car then your brief tells the other party and their insurers to provide one.

This preserves your insurance record, gets them paying up front and its way quicker!!

Oh and when settlement is offered hold out for more as a matter of course!

Leaving 'your' insurance company to deal on your behalf is almost like having 2 companies opposite you at the table!!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,553
A sorry tale for sure, I knew of some of the pit falls but not all sk thanks for posting.

Robin I am not sure that leaving your insurance company out of it protects your insurance record as you have to declare all accidents, even no fault and even if there was no payout.

Having said that, I would always try an deal direct with third party insurer.
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,787
when I was hit in my wife's car in 2017 I refused their offer of a hire car because I read the letter and thought £230 + vat a day to be an outrageous charge

They tried everything to get me to take it, i even had somebody on the phone going through various scenarios of why one car wouldn't be enough even though I pointed out we had 2 other cars she could drive

Because it was a few weeks before Christmas it took 5 weeks before it was repaired, had it not been driveable the hire car bill would've been ridiculous

I do remember catman taking a Porsche when his GT was damaged , I bet that was £500+ a day
 

Phil H

Member
Messages
4,148
However, I was reduced to relief, jubilation and a handful of man-tears this evening when I received an email from the legal team, advising that the 3rd party insurer had accepted the settlement offer, and that court proceedings were now no longer required. All in all, from the date of the accident, that puts this at just under 13 months from start to finish... and it feels that an anvil has been lifted off of the shoulders of my wife and I. In a bizarre twist of fate, it actually happens to be our 10 year wedding anniversary today... an interesting way to remember it, perhaps!
I would keep the email, and for further peace of mind I would ask for a formal written retraction of the summons. Covid is causing a lot of problems with administrative systems and courts are no exceptions, and you don't want to find that the summons is still live in January.

Good outcome though.

PH
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,728
I do remember catman taking a Porsche when his GT was damaged , I bet that was £500+ a day

911 GT something or other. £110k list. I could possibly dig out the per day cost. I think the essential difference was mine was not a credit-hire. My INSCO were being a bit **** (like for like is a Ford Sierra) the other INSCO was a rather different proposition: 'Here's a list of cars, take your pick' I guess because they were picking up their own bill.

Incredible machine but I pretty much hated it and would never buy a 911 based on that car.

C
 

outrun

Member
Messages
5,017
I know a good lawyer who specialises in this sort of thing. If you have any continued problems, PM me and I’ll send you his details. He’s made a living out of challenging the establishment on BS like this and they usually back down as it’s not good PR to publicise their tactics. They prefer to squirm around and bully average joe.
 

Alan Surrey

Member
Messages
993
Just read this Dan. Delighted for you. What a weight off both your shoulders.
Thank you too for your advice when it happened to me in August.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,372
Insurance Companies are Disgraceful it seems in recent years.
My son had an accident that put him in hospital for a few days in January.
The sorry Saga is still going on.
When I was last in the UK I couldn't praise my motor trade insurance enough with MMA faultless and everything dealt with by my Broker in Clevedon a little coastal town South of Bristol.
Several claims over the years none my fault and no aggregation.
Why is private insurance so difficult ?
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
What a relief for you both that they settled but what an appalling experience to go through! Just shows u how u have to be careful in these situations.
Bet u were able to enjoy your anniversary a whole lot more on hearing the news.
 

Ryandoc

Member
Messages
1,842
Isn’t it crappy what we do to ourselves for a quick buck.

Totally blameless in something and some rat of a company tries to extortion a ridiculous amount for something.

I actually renewed my 3 car and house multi policy just a week ago. Claimed once on car insurance in 20 years of driving and never made a house claim, and neither would it unless it fell or burned down.

But my word between that and my life etc insurance just makes you realise how much is paid for insurance. Yes I know we subsidise etc and no issues with that. But it’s still eye contact watering.

To be fair the one claim I had through admiral I couldn’t fault them. Was my fault accident, got a courtesy car (was horrific but it was wheels).

Car was to be repaired but when they started working on it more damage and got written off. I work away and couldn’t get the courtesy car back to the garage for about 5 days but no issues. Not a hire car just a courtesy car. But admirable in their defence were pretty good through the whole thing.

My premium actually went up this year by about £24 but overall they’ve plummeted since I turned 40 back in 2019 so not complaining, much lol

glad you got a good outcome
 

lifes2short

Member
Messages
5,821
nice to hear all sorted, however, you do need to be switched on with these things otherwise you will get shafted somewhere along the line by these snakes in the grass, love the E39 M Sports (petrol) , had a couple in the past with the sat nav screens, fabulous machines and in fact i'm looking to buy a nice example for the stable, future classic, bit of a shame you couldn't get yours repaired without being a write off
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,037
I posted a year ago when I was offered a nice brand new BMW 520 M Sport, by the third party insurance that admitted liability.
No problem with hire cost but the 'scam' was reclaiming damage to the car on return, so anything, a single micro stone chip or micro scratch in the paint, the black paint, heaven forbid if you kerb a wheel!
I had two guys with knee pads inspecting the car on collection, and they identified a one inch 'scratch' in the clear coat, that required a 'respray of that panel'. I wasn't having any of it, I said 'give me a minute' opened my garage door and walked out with my DA polisher.
They immediately backed down on seeing this and the return paperwork was signed off with no damage.
In hindsight, they want your credit card details before delivery, for any parking fines etc... and it was delivered slightly dirty, so it was impossible to identify any micro damage to the car.
I'll never accept any hire car in future from any insurance company, and be completely happy with the body shop beater in future, or no car at all.
 

MarkMas

Chief pedant
Messages
8,899
....If the accident is genuinely ' no fault' as this was, take all the insurance details (as you did), take photographs, as you did and then......
Go to your solicitors and take legal action against the other driver.....
They will then have to involve their insurer
Leave your insurer out of it - they aren't needed.
If you need s hire car then your brief tells the other party and their insurers to provide one.
This preserves your insurance record, gets them paying up front and its way quicker!!
....

Yes, this.

Years ago someone bumped into and slightly damaged the bumper of my Jag when it was parked. She honestly left a number, and I said I could probably get it fixed for £300-500 and could get a quote. All good, but her boyfriend insisted on 'doing it properly through the insurance'. I ended up with loan car (sent it back after a few days), and the Jag was taken away on a low loader and returned 5 weeks later with a crapp repair job. And now whenever I renew insurance I have to have the conversation about my 'no fault claim' that they will graciously not load my premiums for.
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
The below is what I learnt from this process:

  1. Do not assume a credit hire vehicle = courtesy car from your insurer; I did, and my ignorance was my undoing
  2. If you need to accept a courtesy car (and you're not at fault), try and get it organised via the 3rd party's insurer... this in and of itself is an admission of fault, and given they'll have 'skin in the game' by undertaking their own cost in provisioning a temporary vehicle to you, they'll be incentivised to a) minimise their costs and b) expedite the payment/settlement of your vehicle
  3. If you accept a credit hire vehicle that you've organised via your insurer or otherwise, check their vehicle rates... the 420d we hired was something like £255 + VAT per day - balance this rate against the possible duration you'll have the car for... the larger the possible cost, the harder it'll be to get the other insurer to pay up
  4. Ask yourself, do you really need a credit hire vehicle? We've always been a 2 car family... and I was stubborn that we should have one, because there would be periods I'd stay away from home for a few days, and I wouldn't want to deprive my wife of a vehicle to get our kids to school, the shopping etc. Be comfortable that you can stand your ground and justify the need for one with respect to your circumstances
  5. The law states that in this regard, if you need a hire car, to pursue all means at your disposal to keep costs as low as possible... is it cheaper to hire a car off your own back, and claim back the costs from the 3rd party's insurer?
  6. If this happened to my QP5, I suspect I would have had a nicer vehicle... which would scare me even more if the vehicle hire company provided something of 'similar specification'... God knows what the hire cost of that would have come to
Thanks for taking the time to read this, and in doing so understand the potential pitfalls and also perhaps some of my poor decision making. I feel better getting this 'off my chest' and hope that someone else can benefit from our experiences.

I had a luck escape in similar scenario.
My safely parked 3200 was smashed into by reversing jeep. The other party insurer offered to deal with the whole claim, assuring me that any contact with my insurer was managed by them. LUCKY DAY
I could have managed without own car, but as ^^^ we always have car each. I played hardball when they offered like for like car which was entertaining to me (what is 'like' an exclusive 4 seat V8 sports coupe). Eventually stopped short of insisting they give me the 911 run by hire company Director (no maserati in stock). (had 911 3.2 at the time). They sent flashy Merc 4 seat convertible which I hated but girls loved.

My 3200 was in the shop for 7-8 weeks, think the day cost was around £500. thank god this was not on my insurance it might have written off the 3200.

My opinion? Insurance companies all invest / gamble our premiums to make profits. They are largely equally good at this so need a route to get ahead of the pack. One method is to do their utmost to load costs onto their competitors. Huge hire car cost when 'someone else at fault' will make a nice dent in P&L of competitor. No wonder so many are offered hire cars.