Cryptotrading

Tallman

Member
Messages
1,833
When investing, it is important to know the underlying value, and if valuation is a problem, then know the utility of the product and the propensity for that product to become mainstream. Anything else is pure speculation and will be punished heavily unless you just happen to be very lucky.
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
2,734
Why is everyone so up in arms about PoW electrical consumption? It uses less than gold mining, less than banking, indeed less than the tumble driers in the world. Besides, devices are only as green as the electricity they use. So if you charge EVs, which everyone hails as saving the planet, from a non-green energy source, it's not green at all. If you power a Bitcoin mine from a hydro plant, it's 100% green.

Well, the media's not generally one for letting the truth get in the way of a good story, is it.
And I say that as a journalist.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
To put things into perspective I was discussing this with a few mates the other night.
If you invested in btc at 1c and chucked in 10k (very brave at the time) you probably couldn’t believe it at 10c and if you hadn’t got out you probably would by the time it hit 30c.
Very very happy.
We reckon the ones that made it big invested at 1c or later then Lost their plug in memory stick and then fortunately retrieved it 4-5 years later and couldn’t believe their luck!
We doubted anyone that was in at the 1c or 10c or $1 would still be holding now.

why would you?

IMO it’s “greater fool theory” and has been for 2-3 years…..funny money.
Fair play to those that benefited.
 

Tallman

Member
Messages
1,833
Any 'currency' where a scammer can get into the vault and steal $180,000,000 of the currency's reserves feels like a pure gamble to me.
Using that logic every currency is a gamble. It’s like with most things - there are scam artists looking to get your money, and they promise returns that are out of the ordinary. Greedy fools bite and get bitten….

Then there are legitimate platforms making use of the currency but not protecting themselves well enough. These can get looted. It’s like putting your money in a bank vault box and they get broken into.

Its not about the currency itself.
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
2,734
Using that logic every currency is a gamble. It’s like with most things - there are scam artists looking to get your money, and they promise returns that are out of the ordinary. Greedy fools bite and get bitten….

Then there are legitimate platforms making use of the currency but not protecting themselves well enough. These can get looted. It’s like putting your money in a bank vault box and they get broken into.

Its not about the currency itself.

This is the point @Wattie - BTC's inherent design makes it a much better bet long term for the very reasons you shout Ponzi at traditional currency. ;)

There will only ever be a finite amount of BTC. With QE, that's not the same with traditional currencies, and because addressing the problem is hardly a vote winner, the politicians just sit on their hands.
Yes, BTC can rise and fall depending on whatever Elon Musk's puffed out of his bunghole onto his latest mid life crisis, but the long term future for the currency is stronger than most other 'real' currencies; people are getting paid in it, you can pay for stuff in normal places with it, etc. You can't just lob a gold bar at a cashier where you can now with BTC, to a certain extent.
I believe there is good money to still be made riding the waves but you need enough of a percentage to make it worth your while (bulk). Which means the finance big boys are involved, and why it is unlikely to fail because too many people that are far more important than us mere mortals will say it will.


It's a pity that all my money is tied up in the business account. Now would be a good time to take a dip in to BTC and ETH.

As for the rest... that's casino money.
 
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Nayf

Member
Messages
2,734
When investing, it is important to know the underlying value, and if valuation is a problem, then know the utility of the product and the propensity for that product to become mainstream. Anything else is pure speculation and will be punished heavily unless you just happen to be very lucky.
We're seeing this now with the NFT crash. That was always going to happen. The mainstream world doesn't differentiate between NFTs and NFT Art; mention NFT and they think it's some shite cartoon.
NFT is a technology, art is the medium and a crash was always likely, because the intrinsic value of that ape is next door to naff all. However the technology of NFTs is highly useful for a wide variety of uses, especially as our world continues to go online.
 

stindig

Member
Messages
446
Anyone calling crypto a Ponzi and citing greater fools theory just hasn’t done enough research. You don’t think the world is going digital and tokenised?
 

Gooner

Member
Messages
443
This is the point @Wattie - BTC's inherent design makes it a much better bet long term for the very reasons you shout Ponzi at traditional currency. ;)

There will only ever be a finite amount of BTC. With QE, that's not the same with traditional currencies, and because addressing the problem is hardly a vote winner, the politicians just sit on their hands.
.

A government can ‘print’ an infinite amount of a traditional currency whereas BTC is indeed limited by design. On the other hand, there can be an infinite number of cryptocurrencies. I understand the tech pretty well, but I can’t see how that is inherently better than the traditional way.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
This is the point @Wattie - BTC's inherent design makes it a much better bet long term for the very reasons you shout Ponzi at traditional currency. ;)

There will only ever be a finite amount of BTC. With QE, that's not the same with traditional currencies, and because addressing the problem is hardly a vote winner, the politicians just sit on their hands.
Yes, BTC can rise and fall depending on whatever Elon Musk's puffed out of his bunghole onto his latest mid life crisis, but the long term future for the currency is stronger than most other 'real' currencies; people are getting paid in it, you can pay for stuff in normal places with it, etc. You can't just lob a gold bar at a cashier where you can now with BTC, to a certain extent.
I believe there is good money to still be made riding the waves but you need enough of a percentage to make it worth your while (bulk). Which means the finance big boys are involved, and why it is unlikely to fail because too many people that are far more important than us mere mortals will say it will.


It's a pity that all my money is tied up in the business account. Now would be a good time to take a dip in to BTC and ETH.

As for the rest... that's casino money.

Anyone calling crypto a Ponzi and citing greater fools theory just hasn’t done enough research. You don’t think the world is going digital and tokenised?

I appreciate your points regarding “finite supply” and the attractions of it (like Gold).

To be clear, I’ve never called Crypto a “Ponzi” but I’ll stick by my “greater fool theory” at the heady valuations we’ve seen in the last 2 years. Around 4 years ago I purchased a Mercedes with my Ethereum profits....out at $30. Could have bought the dealership if I’d stayed to $3500!
Nft.....mental imo. Millions for an artificial house doesn’t seem good value to me......unless another fool pays more. Nothing really highlights the “bubble” we now have in asset prices more than NFT’s!

Trouble is as we’ve seen here;
  1. It’s not easily understood by the masses and that makes adoption universally complex.
  2. I think central banks will clamp down on it/the exchanges as they won’t want an alternative to their centrally introduced digital (fiat) option.....they’ll probably create digital dollars out of thin air too.
  3. If we ever get to a point where you need to lob a gold bar at a cashier then frankly society has broken down (you know this) and you’d need an automatic weapon to accompany it. Why not just rob the place instead?
  4. I think the fear for all of us should be the introduction of central bank digital currencies and the conversion of whatever we have (assets of every type) into that CB system. We’re very close to this happening under the guise of Covid caused this I reckon......don’t look at the banking errors that caused the GFC and today’s issues.
That’s a horrific prospect as far as I’m concerned -where total control and access to your account can be switched on/off perhaps according to your compliance.....up to date on your 6th vaccine? Canada track protesters anyone?
Introductions of potential expiry dates on funds.....spend it or lose it....if the economy needs stimulated.

Big brother seems everywhere just now. This is the next step.
Build Back Better.

 
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Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
Any 'currency' where a scammer can get into the vault and steal $180,000,000 of the currency's reserves feels like a pure gamble to me.
Not the first time this has happened......$460,000,000.
https://www.wired.com/2014/03/bitcoin-exchange/
Back in the early days.

Hence the first rule of crypto. Never have you holdings on an exchange!

Get them on a personal wallet and don’t throw it out in the rubbish.
 

MarkMas

Chief pedant
Messages
8,795
Anyone calling crypto a Ponzi and citing greater fools theory just hasn’t done enough research. You don’t think the world is going digital and tokenised?

I can see that some kind of crypto currency may well become an important part of the financial system. But the hundreds of schemes out there, where someone says "Here is a new crypto - buy some now and you will make huge returns as the value of the currency soars against traditional currencies because people are piling in speculatively." is just, yes, a Ponzi scheme.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,114
I must be a dinosaur but I can't be the only one as for me I loved it when Cash was King.
I knew exactly where I was and how much I had and what I wanted to declare it really was so easy.
If I didn't have enough I couldn't spend simples.