Cryptotrading

stindig

Member
Messages
363
I can see that some kind of crypto currency may well become an important part of the financial system. But the hundreds of schemes out there, where someone says "Here is a new crypto - buy some now and you will make huge returns as the value of the currency soars against traditional currencies because people are piling in speculatively." is just, yes, a Ponzi scheme.
Yes there are hundreds of stupid get-rich-quick meme coins that have no value whatsoever, but there are also some major chains, many years in development, that will change our lives. I wish the former didn’t tarnish the reputation of the latter, but that’s the way it is.
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
2,006
I must be a dinosaur but I can't be the only one as for me I loved it when Cash was King.
I knew exactly where I was and how much I had and what I wanted to declare it really was so easy.
If I didn't have enough I couldn't spend simples.
The thing is, due to QE, cash is being constantly demoted in the royal heraldry. It’ll be Prince Andrew before too long; the money sits in my account getting worth less. It’s this that turned me from a crypto sceptic to a more agnostic position; BTC cannot be given QE. And If/when the traditional currencies (or Ponzi schemes) collapse, it’s a store of value that can’t be easily controlled for political reasons…
 

Gooner

Centenary Club
Messages
341
I have to say I don’t see it that way. The price of Bitcoin and other cryptos are continuously manipulated for the financial benefit of a few. Sometimes obviously (eg Musk), mostly more subtly.

I don’t believe that using a blockchain currency will eliminate inflation. Just because current QE mechanisms wouldn’t work, doesn’t mean that all work, capital and goods will continue to have the same value relative to each other for ever. I’d still be kicking myself for not holding onto my Alfa Giulia Coupe.

If you are worried about your cash devaluing, you can invest it in assets that you believe will hold or increase their value. I don’t see how crypto helps with that. If nobody invested and risked their cash, the whole economy would stagnate.

FWIW I am a fan of blockchain; 10 years ago I proposed what we now call NFTs for a record company I was working for at the time.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
7,894
The thing is, due to QE, cash is being constantly demoted in the royal heraldry. It’ll be Prince Andrew before too long; the money sits in my account getting worth less. It’s this that turned me from a crypto sceptic to a more agnostic position; BTC cannot be given QE. And If/when the traditional currencies (or Ponzi schemes) collapse, it’s a store of value that can’t be easily controlled for political reasons…
Why can’t it be banned, prevented from being spent by governments?
What’s to prevent the UK from doing a China?
 

MarkMas

Member
Messages
6,835
Yes there are hundreds of stupid get-rich-quick meme coins that have no value whatsoever, but there are also some major chains, many years in development, that will change our lives. I wish the former didn’t tarnish the reputation of the latter, but that’s the way it is.
It was probably the same when the cowrie shell people were arguing with the rai supporters and the manilla enthusiasts.
 

MarkMas

Member
Messages
6,835
Why can’t it be banned, prevented from being spent by governments?
What’s to prevent the UK from doing a China?
Because for a general ban to be fair, a government would also have to ban speculative trading in postage stamps, beanie babies and tulip bulbs.

Plus, the ability to have anonymous payment systems is increasingly important as more and more countries are dominated by religion-based, white supremacist, racist, capitalist, ultra-conservative, nationalist or nativist totalitarianism, such as the USA (all of the above).
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
7,894
Because for a general ban to be fair, a government would also have to ban speculative trading in postage stamps, beanie babies and tulip bulbs.

Plus, the ability to have anonymous payment systems is increasingly important as more and more countries are dominated by religion-based, white supremacist, racist, capitalist, ultra-conservative, nationalist or nativist totalitarianism, such as the USA (all of the above).
Who says it has to be fair….Crypto holders have been warned! Speculative trading can still be transacted using your CBD account for purchase/sales.

If “control” is part of the central bank digital currency ethos nothing is safe- let alone a crypto system that enables “anonymity”,

Anyone in their right mind would run for the CBD alternative…tax avoidance etc….so why would they let you?

Just my tuppence- I hope I’m wrong.
 
Last edited:

AKCH01

Member
Messages
135
Cryptocurrencies might "fail" short terms but blockchains won't fail. Im in it for the long run, I think there is real value in the tokenomics and currencies. I actually see this current situation as a good thing, it's clearing out people who are only in it for capital gain and those who appreciate the idea of decentralisation, censorship resistance, privacy and the ability for peer to peer transactions. wagmi.
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
2,006
Why can’t it be banned, prevented from being spent by governments?
What’s to prevent the UK from doing a China?
The answer to this lies from examples from traditional currencies. Jersey. Virgin Islands. Switzerland. Essentially even if X country bans it, another country will embrace it and the secondary and tertiary money that comes from people moving to these crypto havens.

There's a good example of that in Florida. For many years this was a retirement state, which was leading to socioeconomic and demographic problems; who cares for the old? Who does the industry? etc.
Florida de-regulated for crypto, bringing with it a younger demographic who are willing to spend in the local area. IIRC I think even the local government workers can choose to be paid in Bitcoin.

Apply that to a national scale and you can see why governments aren't willing to ban it. If it was a worldwide ban with international consensus, then that would be a problem. But for the reasons above, it won't.
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
2,006
The price of Bitcoin and other cryptos are continuously manipulated for the financial benefit of a few. Sometimes obviously (eg Musk), mostly more subtly.
How is this different to the traditional stock market?
 

Gooner

Centenary Club
Messages
341
How is this different to the traditional stock market?
Yes, it’s regulated. The major markets might seem like a casino for fatcats from the outside, but if you take publicly quoted companies on eg the FTSE it is pretty difficult to systematically manipulate the share price and get away with it.
 

MaserMike

Member
Messages
312
Given that the Crypto market has had a big tumble such as Tera, Luna, Bitcoin - certainly a real bad choice for those who invested and risky investment area. Never understood Crypto, as there is no substance or tangible physical commodities or assets behind them, just digital vapour.

One of many news stories “The Terra Luna token fell from a high of $118 (£96), last month, to $0.09 on Thursday.“ …. Ouch.

 

AKCH01

Member
Messages
135
Given that the Crypto market has had a big tumble such as Tera, Luna, Bitcoin - certainly a real bad choice for those who invested and risky investment area. Never understood Crypto, as there is no substance or tangible physical commodities or assets behind them, just digital vapour.

One of many news stories “The Terra Luna token fell from a high of $118 (£96), last month, to $0.09 on Thursday.“ …. Ouch.

Just to put that into perspective, 7 Days ago Terra LUNA had a market cap of $28 Billion to $43 Million... 99.4% drop in value.

Despite all of this, the Bitcoin (BTC) stock to flow model chart looks pretty solid/positive despite the minor blip we are seeing.
 

MaserMike

Member
Messages
312
Just to put that into perspective, 7 Days ago Terra LUNA had a market cap of $28 Billion to $43 Million... 99.4% drop in value.

Despite all of this, the Bitcoin (BTC) stock to flow model chart looks pretty solid/positive despite the minor blip we are seeing.
Yikes…. I’m sure someone has benefited and got very rich somewhere out of this
 

Ewan

Member
Messages
5,498
Just to put that into perspective, 7 Days ago Terra LUNA had a market cap of $28 Billion to $43 Million... 99.4% drop in value.

Despite all of this, the Bitcoin (BTC) stock to flow model chart looks pretty solid/positive despite the minor blip we are seeing.
Bitcoin has lost what - 60% in 6 months? I love that you call that a blip!
What if our “real” money, in our actual bank accounts (or our houses, cars, art, jewellery, etc) had lost 60% of their value in that time?! It would make the “sub prime” crash looks like child play!
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
7,894
Cryptocurrencies might "fail" short terms but blockchains won't fail. Im in it for the long run, I think there is real value in the tokenomics and currencies. I actually see this current situation as a good thing, it's clearing out people who are only in it for capital gain and those who appreciate the idea of decentralisation, censorship resistance, privacy and the ability for peer to peer transactions. wagmi.
Blockchains can be shut down though can’t they.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
7,894
Bitcoin has lost what - 60% in 6 months? I love that you call that a blip!
What if our “real” money, in our actual bank accounts (or our houses, cars, art, jewellery, etc) had lost 60% of their value in that time?! It would make the “sub prime” crash looks like child play!
“Stable coins” seem very unstable too.

It’s difficult to reconcile this with anything resembling a “store of value”.

“Speculation”, yes.

 
Last edited: