Energy crisis

Mr Spoon

Member
Messages
407
What I find amazingly ironic and exceptionally amusing is the push on saving the planet, stop using fossil fuels, making change is spearheaded by the very generation that have enjoyed enormous wealth and prosperity from these things. The emission changes are not made by a teenager from Europe, but the privileged and retired generation.

I make this post from a financial position that a large proportion of 30, 40 and 50 year olds are unlikely to achieve in their working life times, and that position is given to me due to fossil fuels.

Real change will only happen when politicians are no longer public school boys fed with generational wealth and insulate Britain bankrupt the country ;)
 

London_Paris

Member
Messages
152
For fear of wading into a debate that has no end....

A few points to consider:

  1. There is only ONE atmosphere. Closing a plant in Europe to move it to China is almost always a net increase in emissions and pollution into the atmosphere.
  2. Consumers want the highest quality at the lowest price - and with rare exception they don't care about the manufacturing/supply chain that brought the product to their door.
  3. The profit motive drives the search for low cost, which in the last 40 years has resulted in major labor arbitrage from high wage to low wage countries (see points 1 and 2)
  4. No one makes major capital investments to be nice. Funds that invest in windmill construction, for example, expect a better than average return on capital employed, and tax rebates/deferments and price support incentives play a large part in those returns today.
  5. On a MACRO scale, energy has never been more reliable, more available, or more affordable than it is today. This leads to better outcomes for societies in every corner of the world - more clean water, more refrigeration, more mobility, and ultimately higher life expectancy (is there a better measure than this?).
  6. There are more people in the developing world than the developed world and they will expect to have the same advantages of progress as those who made the journey to prosperity before them. And this means greater energy consumption on a global scale.
  7. Rural communities are beginning to revolt against the imposition of "city centric" green solutions. Here in France, farming communities are beginning to take legal action to halt windmill construction. That windmills create noise pollution, blight the landscape, and kill an enormous quantity of birds are common talking points. There is no engineering reason that you couldn't build windmills in London or Paris but it doesn't seem that Sadiq Khan or Anne Hidalgo are that keen to give it a go while they love waging war on automobiles.
  8. It is hard to defeat physics. A heavier vehicle always takes more energy to move than a lighter one, and EV's are heavier than ICE vehicles on average.
  9. Having a lower standard of living means having a dirtier planet (go to Africa for a few weeks if you don't think this is true).
Now if we want blue skies and blue oceans and enough energy to underpin an economy that can afford to make the necessary changes we need to be pragmatic - which means using the best sources for each use case. Ideally, 60-80% of electricity would be generated by nuclear (low emissions, high reliability, high availability, reasonable cost per kwh) with the balance a mix of primarily renewable and a bit of combined cycle natural gas to top up the system when needed. For mobility and transport, while imperfect in many ways, the energy density of hydrocarbon liquids is hard to beat. Converting the marine and trucking fleets to cleaner fuels (e.g. LNG) will have a much greater impact than increased EV usage. And of course, less waste of everything (Insulate Britain anyone :) )

I have not addressed short term energy prices as that is a completely different kettle of fish driven by underinvestment, poor policy choices, and a variety of other issues that would require a separate post.

Bill
 
Last edited:

TimR

Member
Messages
2,731
There is only ONE atmosphere. Closing a plant in Europe to move it to China is almost always a net increase in emissions and pollution into the atmosphere
The UK's current boast that our emissions reductions are better than everyone else ( hazar) is based on this misconception exactly....
If you need to point at the hypocrisy and total lack of commitment from the UK policy makers, its right here in the lie that we didnt just export our GHG emisisons elsewhere..
Nothing to see here !
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,216
IR protestor travels 300 miles to protest...you can't make it up.

Another, Tony Hill, 71, said he had travelled from near Kendal in Cumbria to the capital to take part.
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,572
get the impression this is a purist, don't want to use or drive forum.
Not sure where you get that impression, many people o here use their cars as year round daily drivers other like me use them all year round as a second car, some of course lock them away at the first sign of rain, but we are allowed to be different.
 

Tallman

Member
Messages
1,833
Why would I do that? If anything I'm more inclined to put boy racer spoilers and stickers all over it, as i'm starting to get the impression this is a purist, don't want to use or drive forum.
Getting used to the humour here is a lot less trouble ;) my car is a strictly no-rain car but then again the sun shines here most of the time..
 

Mr Spoon

Member
Messages
407
we are allowed to be different.

Yes we are. So perhaps a little less effort from members of the forum in trying to wind up the new forum members wouldn't hurt.

What I've noticed about forums, they often have a clique and trying to penetrate that takes usually too much time and effort for most.

Usually when something out of the norm comes along, a few feathers get ruffled and there you go,
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,769
So perhaps a little less effort from members of the forum in trying to wind up the new forum members wouldn't hurt.

I can absolutely promise they are not trying to wind you up. And this is probably the least cliquey forum I've ever been a member of.

Now if they (or indeed we) were trying to wind you up ;)

C
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,572
Yes we are. So perhaps a little less effort from members of the forum in trying to wind up the new forum members wouldn't hurt.

What I've noticed about forums, they often have a clique and trying to penetrate that takes usually too much time and effort for most.

Usually when something out of the norm comes along, a few feathers get ruffled and there you go,
I still don’t get it, and perhaps once you have met a few people face to face you will see that they don’t have two heads, I have never felt the clique you refer to.
It’s true people were all over your car telling you to sell it and buy a better one, but I can tell you that was genuine advice as no one wanted you to buy your dream car and then have your trousers pulled down.
Did you not notice that once you made a definite decision some of the very same people applauded you for taking a chance and digging in.
Your car is not that different to lots on here and your build thread will be read by many I am sure.
Hope you settle in.
 

Mr Spoon

Member
Messages
407
I still don’t get it, and perhaps once you have met a few people face to face you will see that they don’t have two heads, I have never felt the clique you refer to.
It’s true people were all over your car telling you to sell it and buy a better one, but I can tell you that was genuine advice as no one wanted you to buy your dream car and then have your trousers pulled down.
Did you not notice that once you made a definite decision some of the very same people applauded you for taking a chance and digging in.
Your car is not that different to lots on here and your build thread will be read by many I am sure.
Hope you settle in.
I think it's time we got back to climate change...... I'm going outside to set fire to petrol.... Will probably be more economical than the v8
 

Gazcw

Member
Messages
7,763
Yes we are. So perhaps a little less effort from members of the forum in trying to wind up the new forum members wouldn't hurt.

What I've noticed about forums, they often have a clique and trying to penetrate that takes usually too much time and effort for most.

Usually when something out of the norm comes along, a few feathers get ruffled and there you go,
I can concur as others that the guys and gals on here are genuine, caring, happy to share experiences, great bunch. They will welcome any new member and give their own thoughts and views. You take it or leave it basically. That's what I do. There is some great humour, banter and general joking that should never be taken personally. A lot of us mod our cars, some with just a minor exhaust mod and some go all in like Dman666 with his carbon fetish. I guarantee people will take a genuine interest in anything you do. Do e will like it and some prefer original. It would be pretty boring if we all bolted on the same bits from max power and did donuts in Asda carparks.
I mainly lurked until I bought the QP in 2018. I got lots of help and guidance and have made some good friends. Well, after I paid them each £50 that is. :D
The outings are great, the invasion trips are fantastic, the mods are all fine people, Catman is FOS and Benny is a total c***. ;):lol2:
And I hope you are burning e10 and not e5!
 

breezer

Member
Messages
229
Does anyone know the OFGEM energy price cap in pence per kwh or in terms of the daily standing charge? Even the OFGEM website only offers an "all in typical number". I don't have typical use so I don't want a typical bloody number. I want to compare the cap in pence per khw to the fixed quotes I'm getting in pence per kwh. Is this deemed too complex for people to understand or something?!