Four years left to buy a new ICE car

mjheathcote

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Watching and reading reports of the new future Euro 7 emission standards expected to come into force in 2025.
It's so strict with virtually zero emissions that car manufacturers are unlikely to spend millions achieving this for only a further 5 years before we are all EV.
This ties in with many manufacturers already planning in going full EV earlier than 2030.
It just seems to be happening rather quickly, with still the problem of charging these EV's for many people.
Of course it won't happen overnight with many daily ICE drivers being used well into 2030.
 

bigbob

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8,500
I suppose this will lead to all the usual posts about hating BEVs, lack of noise etc. Personally I just deal with reality and live my life round it.

The Euro 7 rules sound scary but Euro 6 imposed GPFs have killed good car sounds already - listen to a Porsche 992, nothing much going on. If the sound is gone with petrol then I don't mind going electric as I rarely drive more than 200 miles in a day and I'll keep the Maser to remind me of what life used to be like. Obviously most cars sold in the next few years will become hybrid (actually I don't mind ranting about these as lots of owners probably never plug them in) rather than full BEVs.
 

Hawk13

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  • I suppose this will lead to all the usual posts about hating BEVs, lack of noise etc. Personally I just deal with reality and live my life round it.
Not at all. I have recently bought a PHEV but see it as a twin engined car (in fact that is how it is marketed) that gives me 400bhp on tap and the ability to do short journeys cheaply.

However, what I do object to is the suggestion that that zero (or very low) emission cars are kinder the environment without factoring battery production (and recycling) and power generation.

And that we do not have the infrastructure to support EVs. To date, I have tried to use 5 public charging points with the following experiences:

2 - not working
1 - all being used so no availability
1 - the app took so long to download and was so fecking complicated to use I gave up after 25 minutes
1 - worked very well after downloading the app and registering

If every other car on the road is an EV we are going to need to massively increase the number of charging points and enhance the grid (100 cars at a service station drawing 50 kw is a lot of demand and the grid can barely cope with kettles being boiled in the Corrie adverts!).
 

GeoffCapes

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I'd like to know how they are going to find all the rare earth metals needed for all these batteries and chargers.
Especially when there is hardly enough to go around now!
 

mjheathcote

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I know our mains supply burned out just down our road last year, we were without electricity for over 12 hours while they dug up the road, and spliced in a repair.
If say 50% or even much less start charging their new EV's at the same time at the typical 7Kw, it just won't cope!
Then the banning of new gas boilers, how is that going to work with the existing electricity infrastructure?
Okay for new modern housing developments say in Milton Keynes, but for the rest of us all the infrastructure is well over 50 years old.
 

Gooner

Centenary Club
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243
I'd like to know how they are going to find all the rare earth metals needed for all these batteries and chargers.
Especially when there is hardly enough to go around now!
I real problem, but I expect science and engineering will come to the rescue. Many of the metals aren’t actually that rare but are difficult to mine. We’ll get better at mining them, we’ll figure out better ways to recover/recycle them from old tech like phones and computers, and alternative alloys which are much easier to produce may become viable.

I think we will still have to accept a dramatic change in how we approach mining; it can’t continue to depend on developing countries having their people exploited and environments trashed. Raw materials will cost more. We’ll have to get used to our cars lasting much much longer. A state of mind which classic car enthusiasts like us have been promoting and enjoying for years :).

PS I’m keeping my Spyder
 

CatmanV2

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40,271
I'd like to know how they are going to find all the rare earth metals needed for all these batteries and chargers.
Especially when there is hardly enough to go around now!
Do chargers need rare earths Just curious

I know our mains supply burned out just down our road last year, we were without electricity for over 12 hours
Burned out or just broke? Not that it matters. That would be fun wouldn't it. Not only no power but also you can't go anywhere....

C
 

Doohickey

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2,132
Watched Harry's review of the Audi e-tron yesterday and he made a similar point on Euro 7 requirements. It's interesting to see the joy on his face when he arrives at a charging point to discover a) there's a free one and b) it works. He also points out that the car will take 14 hours to charge to full on a 7kwh system i.e. a domestic supply.
 

GeoffCapes

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12,397
Do chargers need rare earths Just curious
I don't have any idea what they're made of but read somewhere that the rare metals required in EV batteries and chargers (they didn't differentiate between the two) are simply not there in the quantities required for manufacturers to replace all the ICE cars with EV's.
 

GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
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12,397
I real problem, but I expect science and engineering will come to the rescue. Many of the metals aren’t actually that rare but are difficult to mine. We’ll get better at mining them, we’ll figure out better ways to recover/recycle them from old tech like phones and computers, and alternative alloys which are much easier to produce may become viable.

I think we will still have to accept a dramatic change in how we approach mining; it can’t continue to depend on developing countries having their people exploited and environments trashed. Raw materials will cost more. We’ll have to get used to our cars lasting much much longer. A state of mind which classic car enthusiasts like us have been promoting and enjoying for years :).

PS I’m keeping my Spyder
But surely if mining these rare metals is harder, it is therefore more energy intensive, which unless the mining equipment is run from a green fuel source the whole thing is a pointless exercise?

As using a massive amount of hydrocarbons to find a small amount of a certain metal is counterproductive when arguing an EV is green?

Do you need loads of rare metals for hydrogen cars?
 

CatmanV2

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40,271
I don't have any idea what they're made of but read somewhere that the rare metals required in EV batteries and chargers (they didn't differentiate between the two) are simply not there in the quantities required for manufacturers to replace all the ICE cars with EV's.
Ahhhh! Journalism ;)

C
 

CatmanV2

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The Scottish Power ad that has a small boy in the bath telling us that they're doing amazing things with green, hydrogen gas. He then farts. I am concerned that anyone involved in the making of that ad may have thought that farts are hydrogen....

C
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
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8,261
Do chargers need rare earths Just curious



Burned out or just broke? Not that it matters. That would be fun wouldn't it. Not only no power but also you can't go anywhere....

C
Burned out, next to the underground gas line, that melted and started leaking gas.
86848
 

spkennyuk

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5,202
The next crime wave is looking like stolen charge cables for EVs.

The next insurance scam could well be people tripping over the cables and claiming off the council or vehicle owners.
 

Gooner

Centenary Club
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But surely if mining these rare metals is harder, it is therefore more energy intensive, which unless the mining equipment is run from a green fuel source the whole thing is a pointless exercise?

As using a massive amount of hydrocarbons to find a small amount of a certain metal is counterproductive when arguing an EV is green?

Do you need loads of rare metals for hydrogen cars?
Yeah, I agree, maybe not pointless but we can’t carry on and just replace petrol with batteries, that really would be pointless.

What is the point of a Tesla that does 0-60 in 3s? Why not make the range 500m instead?
 

Nayf

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1,666
Yeah, I agree, maybe not pointless but we can’t carry on and just replace petrol with batteries, that really would be pointless.

What is the point of a Tesla that does 0-60 in 3s? Why not make the range 500m instead?
Because in America, there’s a greater tradition for straight line acceleration as a the most valuable marker of performance.
 

CatmanV2

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Because in America, there’s a greater tradition for straight line acceleration as a the most valuable marker of performance.
And also, rather importantly range is about total energy capacity (and efficiency) where as acceleration is rate of energy conversion.

C
 

bigbob

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8,500
Because in America, there’s a greater tradition for straight line acceleration as a the most valuable marker of performance.
It took me a while to figure out why American road tests were so much bigger, faster and more chocolatey. The I realised that their standing start acceleration stats are not done from a standing start....that's not cricket.

Back on the Tesla 3 point, I'm surprised that a few people missed the open goal and assumed that I meant the Tesla was better than a 911 which it clearly is not. However, if some zero design company can put this sort of drivetrain in a car at a reasonable price then someone will come along sometime soon and join the dots in a more attractive way. As an aside yesterday I saw a new 718 Cayman 4.0 GTS in yellow. Loved it but is it worth sinking £80k in something like this now?