Ghibli suspension overhaul

spacecadet

Junior Member
Messages
256
#1
Hi,

I'm planning to do a full suspension overhaul during the next few months. I would document it here if there is any interest and would also like to hear your input in some questions.

Mostly gathered all the bits and pieces, only missing the ball joints for the front arms and rubber mounts for the back ones. Since some rubber pieces are quite hard to get, or are quite old - some NLA items I was able to source are from '94 - is it a viable route to let these custom made? Found some companies locally who are advertising this, but didn't contacted them yet, don't even know how it would turn out, thinking about various compounds, etc. Any experience with this?

Planning to drop both subframes, dismantle everything, sandblast, e-coat and 2k paint the bigger parts, zinc plate screws, washers, etc. Is there anything I should prepare for? One area I'm unsure is about how to support the engine while / after removing the front subframe. Is the oil pan sturdy enough to be supported by some wooden blocks from beneath, even for multiple weeks?

Upgrade-wise (car is an ABS), I've just read about the Cup springs, which are still available, so will definitely use them. But I'm wondering about the KS ARBs, are they a worthy upgrade? If it would be a good upgrade why didn't Maserati use them in the GT or Cup versions? As wrote in the other topic I have 15 mm in the back (don't know if it's original or replaced later from a QP IV), and measured 17 mm in the front, but that should be 16...

From just before Christmas:

IMG_5307 copy.jpg

And some replacements based on the parts received:

366602133 - OPAC 0280165
366602134 - OPAC 0290165
326656310 - KOYO KH1814

Still trying to identify the TRW parts (steering gear end joint, front ARB links)
 

del mar

Junior Member
Messages
202
#2
Morning,

I have done that, front and rear, everything is now powder coated, I only used parts that were available in the UK - so I haven't done as much as you are planning.

There is a thread somewhere on here showing how I supported the engine - I have a 4 post lift. You can either use a transmission jack, or I used a trolley jack resting on two 4x4 fence posts. Both will give a little bit over time but a quick pump every couple of days will be ok. I did the rear on the Maseratiforum, so if you look through that site there are pictures.

All the powder coated bits still look good, the "brand new" zinc Maserati parts don't..

Nothing I found overly difficult, the weight of the rear subframe and the diff made moving them a hassle, and some bushes were more awkward to get out than others.

I was going to ask if you live near kent I would offer some assistance, but Hungary is a bit far to come for a couple of hours...

Del.
 

spacecadet

Junior Member
Messages
256
#3
Del, thanks for the tips and the threads too, they are going to be extremely useful! I remember reading the one about the front a year ago or so (actually the first picture and the one with the shiny bits :)) and was searching for it since then like crazy, now I got it, "Another Quiet Sunday...", wouldn't have thought, I hope I'll be ready when spring comes...

And even a 4 post lift, nice. I'll do this in my small 1 car garage (at least not on the driveway) on jack stands. Were afraid that the oil pan is too fragile to be supported from below, but great to see it will be fine.

Yeah, I'm a bit further, but appreciate the offer.
 

del mar

Junior Member
Messages
202
#4
Del, thanks for the tips and the threads too, they are going to be extremely useful! I remember reading the one about the front a year ago or so (actually the first picture and the one with the shiny bits :)) and was searching for it since then like crazy, now I got it, "Another Quiet Sunday...", wouldn't have thought, I hope I'll be ready when spring comes...

And even a 4 post lift, nice. I'll do this in my small 1 car garage (at least not on the driveway) on jack stands. Were afraid that the oil pan is too fragile to be supported from below, but great to see it will be fine.

Yeah, I'm a bit further, but appreciate the offer.
I used an Ice Hockey puck on the jack but a decent piece of wood would spread the weight better.
 

chad5k1

New Member
Messages
167
#5
The KS ARB's were one of the best upgrades we did to the car - they work very well with the cup springs. You will get less grip in the wet, but much better cornering in the dry.
 

spacecadet

Junior Member
Messages
256
#6
The KS ARB's were one of the best upgrades we did to the car - they work very well with the cup springs. You will get less grip in the wet, but much better cornering in the dry.
That's great to hear, thanks. Handling in wet is not so important for me, not much use in those conditions if possible.

Now I have to source those dreaded rubber mounts. I know that the rear ones are identical to earlier Biturbos, but do you know if the fronts use the same material? Might have seen it as orage / brown on some pictures if not mistaken. If so I'll ask around whether remanufacturing is a reasonable option.
 

chad5k1

New Member
Messages
167
#7
I did not have joy with having them made. There was a suggestion it was basically the same as from a ford transit van! But I never did find out for sure.
The front is 20mm internal and on ebay at the moment: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111131079682

The rear is 17mm and should be the same part for KS and non ABS ghibli (which ran a 17mm bar) 367000365. If you can't find that, then I believe that the 3200 rear arb bush fits 387000366.
 

spacecadet

Junior Member
Messages
256
#8
I did not have joy with having them made. There was a suggestion it was basically the same as from a ford transit van! But I never did find out for sure.
The front is 20mm internal and on ebay at the moment: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111131079682

The rear is 17mm and should be the same part for KS and non ABS ghibli (which ran a 17mm bar) 367000365. If you can't find that, then I believe that the 3200 rear arb bush fits 387000366.
Yes, that's the red / orange I was remembering. Since I only need two, will probably go with these.

Thanks for the 3200 tip, I have access to one, will measure those rear bushes over the weekend.

What happened with those you had made? Low quality?
 

spacecadet

Junior Member
Messages
256
#9
Finally I'm done with most of the preparation, received the parts (except the above KS ARB bushes), finished laying tiles as I couldn't stand the dusty old concrete floor (even a trolley jack was hard to move), and dropped the rear end over the weekend.

Made a jig first to aid putting the car on jack stands

P1060300.jpg

Process was a bit slow, but kinda safe:
- lift at the front factory points with two trolley jacks
- slip jig under wheel, above some wood
- lower car, move trolley jacks under jig
- lift jig and place jacks stands under lifting points
- repeat for rear

P1060304.jpg

I had mostly luck, nothing was stuck, only stripped one brake disc retaining bolt which was already rounded a bit and wasn't paying attention. This is where I finished yesterday

P1060363.jpg

How complicated is dismantling / reassembly of the rear hubs? I thought about replacing the bearing now instead of doing it later.
 

del mar

Junior Member
Messages
202
#10
Wow - you don't hang around.

I cheated here I painted the hubs, I took them to my friendly mechanic and he didn't hold out much hope for getting the bearings out without damaging something.

Is yours a NON abs ?
 

spacecadet

Junior Member
Messages
256
#11
Yeah, I have to get myself together :) Will be away in Feb / March for a few weeks and then spring will be here soon.

Mine is an ABS.

Meanwhile found some posts about the rear hub on this great Japanese blog:
http://blog.livedoor.jp/tedesco/archives/47825525.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/tedesco/archives/47870965.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/tedesco/archives/48081481.html

Bearing is pushed out / in with the help of an old bearing.

Also per the German forum (http://www.m-erdmann.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3670) for the locking ring nut 397250373 a Ferrari tool RNT-45 can be used in, available for example from Hill Engineering (http://www.hillengineering.co.uk/catalog/rnt45-p-69.html) Strangely the Maserati workshop manual mentions the tools AG 25440 (guide flange for wrench) + AG 25450 for 2.0l or AG 25400 for 2.8l (wrench) for the ring nut so there has be some difference between the two versions.

I'll think about the hub, will see how the other parts proceed otherwise will never finish, maybe I'll follow the painting route.
 

del mar

Junior Member
Messages
202
#12
Good find.

I do love the Hill pricing, it is a part for a Ferrari so we will copy their pricing. The oil filter removal tool for a 550 is £50 plus vat and delivery.
 

spacecadet

Junior Member
Messages
256
#14
There are some crazy prices indeed. Although last time I had to buy a really similar wrench for Mercedes G hubs and that was even more expensive, around £65. The brute force hammer and screwdriver method was not applicable because it needed a specific torque for proper tensioning.
 
Messages
1,340
#15
it needed a specific torque for proper tensioning.
I was joking but is proper torque for an oil filter really necessary?
Fitted dozens to cars and bikes over the years and if there ever was a slight weep of oil then nip it up a touch more.
Can imagine Ferrari specifying but in practice was it a problem?
 

spacecadet

Junior Member
Messages
256
#17
Got stuck, seemed to be too easy so far...

Drilled out the broken brake disc retainer screw, used a 10mm drill, screw is 8mm with a big taper head

P1060368.jpg

Then it was easy to unscrew the remainder

P1060370.jpg

Next was to detach the hub and control arm, but the screws are stuck.

P1060380.jpg

Nuts removed and that's all. I could move one of the screws a bit, but no matter left or right, nothing happens, only creaking sound. Are there threads inside? Someone was there before me, even broke the built-in washer.

P1060383.jpg
 

del mar

Junior Member
Messages
202
#19
I was joking but is proper torque for an oil filter really necessary?
Fitted dozens to cars and bikes over the years and if there ever was a slight weep of oil then nip it up a touch more.
Can imagine Ferrari specifying but in practice was it a problem?
Opinion on ferrari chat appears to be that they are of such poor quality they need torqueing !
 

del mar

Junior Member
Messages
202
#20
I think mine was difficult to remove.

They are not threaded just stuck, I used an impact driver on mine so didn't damage the head that much.

It is worth trying;

Remove the three bolts that connect the hub to the top mount, leaving only the bottom part connected and using a mallet and piece of wood see if you can hammer the top part of the hub outwards and downwards to try and break the seal on the bottom bolt ? Obviously hit the wood not the hub !
The twisting action may help to break the seal.