Humbling Experience

London_Paris

Member
Messages
152
My 14yr old son and I did our first laps of the Nordschleife today with the GT. You can watch all the videos, look at all the guides, but the undulating and twisty nature of the track still amazes.

It was a busy day as the weather was nice so we spent a lot of time getting passed by every model of Porsche and hot hatch imaginable.

I have never been on a racetrack of any kind with any car so I learned a lot about what I don't know to drive quickly. We will try 4-5 taps tmrw weather and track conditions permitting.

The car is much better than I am a driver right now.

We had a great time.

Bill
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,511
I did the same thing a few years back, I am no racing driver either, I had 3 objectives

  1. have fun
  2. get around the track
  3. it to crash

I was never going to be the fastest car out there but ticked all three boxes and went on to enjoy the rest of my journey through to Italy.

I am sure you had a great time, don’t spoil it tomorrow by trying too hard :eek:
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
Been three times but never driven it, only as a passenger.
First time was in my then Lotus Elise and the conditions were dreadful, wet and someone had just put their car on its roof so chickened out.
Second time was between selling the Lotus and picking up the Maserati, so went around a couple of times as a passenger in a friends V8 M3. Certainly without the driver aids would be in the armco, even if said friend disagrees!
Third time was passing and the track was closed for a proper race.
Not having any insurance cover and seeing how some drive, that could cause an accident that you could possibly not avoid, no thanks!
 

c4sman

Member
Messages
1,243
I’ve driven a few laps in a 911 on it and the very best advice I got was the following.

For the novice or even someone who has done a few track days, drive the ring like a great country road that you don’t know that well, DO NOT drive it like a race track. It is such a tricky track with undulations, blind crests and slippery sections and NO RUN OFF. Make a mistake and pay a heavy price, so always keep a margin and don’t get dragged into keeping up with faster traffic to avoid a costly mistake. Driven like that it is awesome fun and a real thrill! Good luck!
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,764
I think I read on my insurance Nordschleife is specifically excluded ,due to it being classed as a toll road they were getting too many expensive claims

The thing that would worry me is the track repair bill if you crash badly and they have to close it
 

c4sman

Member
Messages
1,243
I think I read on my insurance Nordschleife is specifically excluded ,due to it being classed as a toll road they were getting too many expensive claims

The thing that would worry me is the track repair bill if you crash badly and they have to close it
I don’t think track damage is as bad as the internet makes out, however agree that almost all UK insurance policies identify the ring as specifically now as excluded from any cover. Whatever insurance you may or may not have you really don’t want to bend your car there.
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,511
He whole insurance took was another reason I did note of a parade lap than a times lap, here is a link to my first lap.

I was luckily it was very quiet

 

c4sman

Member
Messages
1,243
He whole insurance took was another reason I did note of a parade lap than a times lap, here is a link to my first lap.

I was luckily it was very quiet

That’s super quiet for a tourist day. Well driven first lap of the ring:thumb3:

I always loved watching tatty German registered Mk2 Golf GTIs ripping past tricked up Ferraris and Porsche GT3s driven by inexperienced Brits like me:laughing:
One to leave your ego at home
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,511
That’s super quiet for a tourist day. Well driven first lap of the ring:thumb3:

I always loved watching tatty German registered Mk2 Golf GTIs ripping past tricked up Ferraris and Porsche GT3s driven by inexperienced Brits like me:laughing:
One to leave your ego at home
It’s was a Tuesday evening - it rained solidly all day then the sun came out for the evening track time.
 

London_Paris

Member
Messages
152
To finish our particular story…It rained heavily last night but by 09:00 it was a damp and drying track. In order to simplify my life a bit, I tried the laps today in Sport Auto (my GT has the 6sp ZF box). For the first lap, traffic was lighter than yesterday, and at least the first 3-4 kms of the track feel a bit familiar. We took about 10 minutes in the parking lot before heading out again. Traffic was getting heavy and I felt like we spent a lot of time on the right edge of the track as people zoomed by. When we finished I said to my son that that felt really slow and he said “well that was 43 seconds faster than the first lap“

As rain was forecast we called it a day after that and headed back to Paris.

To go fast on this track will require at least 50 laps in a relatively short time frame…There is so much to know and understand about what is right around the corner and how the car interacts with the circuit.

In 5 laps we took 90 seconds out of our BTG time (which was still very slow) and the analytical side of my brain is thinking about how to keep the progress going although I doubt I will be back this year. I also have newfound respect for the 7:58 BTG time that was set with a stradale some years ago.

In sum, we had a great time, didn’t have any ”OMG” moments, and felt that the overall driving standard was high and even the fastest cars respected the passing rules and etiquette.

As for car spotting….the most common car was a Porsche GT3 (not RS) and then older M3 varieties. Hot hatches and lambo huracans were also well represented. Did not see a single Ferrari all weekend, and while there were many McLarens on display, I did not see one take the track. I did see a well driven panel van.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice, it was helpful in many ways,.
 

Felonious Crud

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
21,011
Interesting write up, L_P, thanks for sharing. Personally, I‘d almost certainly **** myself.

Speed aside, I bet your car was the best sounding one there.
 

c4sman

Member
Messages
1,243
The Carousel confused the MSP on my 4200 when I did a lap. So much I got the MSP not working light on. Great, if anywhere you need it, it's there.
Carousel is a car breaker, but not essential on a lap. After one go around it for the experience the rest of my laps were around the outside. Wasn’t worried about lap times (ultimately a recipe for disaster), and didn’t want to snap a spring!
 

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
I used to race around there in the 70's/80's...bit like Mallory Park but longer...

Dave
 

cheburator

Member
Messages
139
I don’t think track damage is as bad as the internet makes out, however agree that almost all UK insurance policies identify the ring as specifically now as excluded from any cover. Whatever insurance you may or may not have you really don’t want to bend your car there.

Oh, believe you me, it can be pretty bad. From memory, back in 2003 Direct Line, bless them, paid out around £10k to Nurburgring GmBH for armco damage and track closure on my behalf. Then they covered about £8k worth of damage on my mint 1992 E30 325I Motorsport. I know somebody who generated EUR27k worth of armco damage alone, add a CSL flipped on its roof and being sawn in two by above armco and you get the picture.

However, the really scary stuff is not the armco/car damage. Most of us are big boys and can live with it, albeit with a nasty after taste It's the damage to the likes of Herr Hans Bloggen - a Senior Investment Banker at Deutsche Bank Frankfurt - which is really scary. Hans was on his bike during TF and he happened to crash on fluids spilled by your Porsche/BMW/Audi/VW/Alfa etc. He wasn't quite dead, but he lost and arm and an eye and now he needs constant care. He used to earn £5mm per year and now his Insurance Co is paying him out. Then the German Insurance Co are after your UK insurance company, which settles the bill and then comes after you, because the Nring is specifically excluded in your T&Cs. The same applies for 3d party cars...

In the interest of clarity - the above is a very dark scenario, but by no means implausible. In addition - no one has had to sell their house/children into slavery to pay off UK insurance companies yet, as the court cases have been successfully defended, but the reality is I guess nobody wants this hanging over them. Hence these days, after 1000+ laps I only do track days there... And if I do the odd TF lap, it's not banzai anymore....
 

c4sman

Member
Messages
1,243
Fair e nuff! A lot has changed on the insurance since 2003 (probably after direct line coughed up :D) to exclude ring insurance. When I went I established that I had full cover. If I were to go back I would only do so in my own car if I’d taken out specific ring insurance (either do TF or track day). In saying all of that, having had my fun with zero issues and become a bit old, scared and slow, I’m unlikely to go back for more in any of my own cars at least.