I went to a vigil once

[Scaf]

The day after the Manchester bombing I was in town and joined once of the many vigils, the silent remembrance and silent prayer was very poignant.

Not sure what happened last night as I was not there, but have yet to see video of silent respectful remembrance.
I imagine some people (and not just police officers and commanders) should reflect on how they behaved.

When I lit a candle to remember my late sister and mother, I included poor Sarah in my prayers.

RIP Sarah Everard x

 

[Wack61]

Like all these things there will be a lot that go there to pay their respects and some that want a fight , unfortunately they're the ones that start the trouble

 

[Harry]

I went to the bandstand at Clapham Common really early this morning to pay my respects, see the flowers and read the placards. I’d already decided in my mind that renta mob must have turned up to cause trouble the night before.
I ended up chatting to a few people including a mother and daughter. The daughter was about 16 and had been there last night. She said it was all civilised until the police started infiltrating the crowd and over aggressively moving people on. Once the police had left the area, it went back to a quiet and peaceful vigil.
I’d expected that the area around the bandstand would be a real mess after the scuffles, but it was pretty clean. Just bins overflowing, so they must have been a considerate bunch of people. I came home with a totally different perspective.

 

[Oneball]

Still illegal though whether they were considerate or not, police did very well in my book but the press are spinning it differently.

Lady was murdered across town from me last week and a 20 year old girl in February not 200y from here but as it’s not London no one took a blind bit of notice.

 

[Harry]

Yes, it was illegal, I’d agree with that. It had been officially cancelled by “Reclaim the Streets”. It wasn’t just about Sarah Everard but the 118 women who had been murdered this year - in the UK as a whole. I suppose there are a lot more people who live here which means more people turn up.
I’ll get off my soapbox.

 

[Oneball]

I understand that and that’s why you did the right and sensible thing.

But last night wasn’t that. Imagine if one of those people had the Brazilian Covid variant instead of having to trace that person their 5 family members and 10 work colleagues they now have to trace the 300 people who were there, their 1500 colleagues and the 10000 people they’ve worked with/live with/been in contact with.

 

[Scaf]

People didn’t need to stay around, respects, take a moment and go home.
I know two people there last night, they missed the “action” so to speak but did say there was not much social distancing, although most were wearing masks.
The police handled the planning badly for sure and IMO should have agreed something that would work, it was always going to happen so why not try to make it work and safe.

 

[dgmx5]

By way of comparison, and without the law having changed in the past 6 weeks, there have been unlawful gatherings outside several football grounds this week in protest at the ESL being conceived despite it already being grounded.

No reported arrests, no media outcry, non-existant social distancing, little in the way of mask wearing, very few women in attendance.

A woman is killed, allegedly by an off-duty policeman, women are subjected to physical and sexual violence on a daily basis yet society says "Alright love, keep quiet, wind your neck in, put the kettle on."

Six football clubs want to form a breakaway football league and the PM immediately threatens legislation to prevent it and society says "You tell 'em. Get down there and show those foreign owners that they can't take our history away from us."

Male privilege in 2021.

 

[CatmanV2]

A woman is killed by an off-duty policeman,

Just to be strictly accurate: Innocent until proven guilty (assuming you're talking about Sarah Everard)

Otherwise I agree with much of you point. I just have this thing about conviction before trial

C

 

[Scaf]

In the case I referenced it was supposed to be a vigil but the behaviours I witnessed were that of a protest.

That said, I completely agree that the police should have broken these protests up and those organising / participating breaking the law should have / should be dealt with.

 

[dgmx5]

Just to be strictly accurate: Innocent until proven guilty (assuming you're talking about Sarah Everard)

Correct and fixed. However, for balance here are 3 officers, whether serving or retired, found guilty of killing women although these are apparently less shocking as they are domestic violence incidents.

Claire Parry death: PC Timothy Brehmer has sentence increased

Timothy Brehmer strangled Claire Parry after she exposed their secret relationship to his wife.

www.google.com

How GMP inspector Darren McKie turned from cop to cold-blooded killer

A trial has found Darren McKie guilty of murdering his wife Leanne before dumping her body at Poynton Lake. This is how the police officer - considered a rising star at GMP - turned from cop to killer

www.google.com

Pervy cop who murdered wife thought he was God's gift to women

Keith Farquharson fancied himself as a ladies’ man and his infidelity, deception and lies tormented his tragic wife Alice before he killed her.

www.google.com

If this was the life I have to live, and clearly it isn't, I would be ******* furious on a daily basis. Far more than I am about the inception of a super league, which I am as a lifelong Reds fan.

Or if I had to live under the cloud of a report claiming institutional rascism does not exist when the report's authors say they did not write that.

 

[dgmx5]

In the case I referenced it was supposed to be a vigil but the behaviours I witnessed were that of a protest.

That said, I completely agree that the police should have broken these protests up and those organising / participating breaking the law should have / should be dealt with.

So when will be allowed to protest again?

Because some things really are worth protesting about, and some people seem very keen to remove that right which seems to me rather authoritarian and anti-libertarian.

 

[CatmanV2]

Correct and fixed. However, for balance here are 3 officers, whether serving or retired, found guilty of killing women although these are apparently less shocking as they are domestic violence incidents.

Claire Parry death: PC Timothy Brehmer has sentence increased

Timothy Brehmer strangled Claire Parry after she exposed their secret relationship to his wife.

www.google.com

How GMP inspector Darren McKie turned from cop to cold-blooded killer

A trial has found Darren McKie guilty of murdering his wife Leanne before dumping her body at Poynton Lake. This is how the police officer - considered a rising star at GMP - turned from cop to killer

www.google.com

Pervy cop who murdered wife thought he was God's gift to women

Keith Farquharson fancied himself as a ladies’ man and his infidelity, deception and lies tormented his tragic wife Alice before he killed her.

www.google.com

If this was the life I have to live, and clearly it isn't, I would be *** furious on a daily basis. Far more than I am about the inception of a super league, which I am as a lifelong Reds fan.

Or if I had to live under the cloud of a report claiming institutional rascism does not exist when the report's authors say they did not write that.

Certainly I wouldn't argue with you. And certainly I am not seeking to defend violence directed at women as anything other than deplorable, and worthy of contempt and punishment.

I do, however, think there is something very different about violence directed at women by people who are known to each other (far far too common) as opposed to violence directed at women where neither party knows each other (vanishingly rare, I understand)

While I am not at all sure I can express my nascent opinion in way that makes it comprehensible and furthers discussion, it rather feels like one case is a 1:1 and that's very different from a many:many.

Hoping this isn't going to trigger anything, but rather afraid it will, so apologies in advance

C

 

[Scaf]

So when will be allowed to protest again?

Because some things really are worth protesting about, and some people seem very keen to remove that right which seems to me rather authoritarian and anti-libertarian.

You can protest quite legally even during Covid, but there are rules that need to be followed.
I don’t know them off the top of my head, but it will include things like

• informing the police
• doing a risk assessment
• social distancing

Does make it harder ( but not impossible) for impromptu protests though.

 

[Wattie]

You can protest quite legally even during Covid, but there are rules that need to be followed.
I don’t know them off the top of my head, but it will include things like

• informing the police
• doing a risk assessment
• social distancing

Does make it harder ( but not impossible) for impromptu protests though.

Seems you can’t do this (take a knee) for BLM at the Olympics anymore.
Banned under rules for “racial propaganda”.

 

[dgmx5]

You can protest quite legally even during Covid, but there are rules that need to be followed.
I don’t know them off the top of my head, but it will include things like

• informing the police
• doing a risk assessment
• social distancing

Does make it harder ( but not impossible) for impromptu protests though.

Except GMP do not seem too keen to let you organise even small protests:

Law firm takes up case of nurse fined £10,000 for 1% pay protest | Police | The Guardian

Karen Reissmann, a frontline worker throughout the pandemic, was given the fixed penalty by Greater Manchester police

amp.theguardian.com

If she does not pay the FPN, the usual position would be to prosecute but I would be very surprised in the CPS would choose to do so given the risk of an embarrassing not guilty verdict.