No oil pressure today - possible oil pump failure!

[Matt82]

Started the 4200 up, luckily just sat on the drive idling when I notice the oil pressure drop to zero, followed by the sound of rattling.
I immediately turned the engine off.
Drained the oil, hoping I’d not noticed a massive leak, but 6 ish litres came out.
Replaced the oil filter, again hopeful for a random blockage. Topped up with new oil.
Disconnected the ignition and fuel and turned the engine over hoping for oil pressure to rise.
No oil pressure, looking in the header pot there doesn’t appear to be any movement of oil.
Thinking it must be a failed oil pump, anyone on the forum have experience of this?
cheers
Matt

 

[CatmanV2]

It's a combined water and oil pump. Failure has been seen where the shaft (I think it is) corrodes and boom. Was there water in your oil. Is there oil in your water?

C

 

[Matt82]

Doesn’t appear to be any mixing of fluids. I was checking the water level whilst turning it over as well, couldn’t see any movement.

Thanks Catman, shaft failure seems like a good shout.

I’m thinking that’s not going to be an easy repair!
Matt

 

[CatmanV2]

Doesn’t appear to be any mixing of fluids. I was checking the water level whilst turning it over as well, couldn’t see any movement.

Thanks Catman, shaft failure seems like a good shout.

I’m thinking that’s not going to be an easy repair!
Matt

@philw696 to the oily courtesy phone, please

C

 

[philw696]

Okay @Matt82 I did one on my back in 2014 documented on here in 2014 back then the combined pumps in one unit driven off the back of the timing chain was about £1500.
It's a lot of work but doable on axle stands.
I bought it as a project to do and the car is still going good today in New Zealand where I took it.
If I can help in anyway let me know.
Phil.

 

[Matt82]

Okay @Matt82 I did one on my back in 2014 documented on here in 2014 back then the combined pumps in one unit driven off the back of the timing chain was about £1500.
It's a lot of work but doable on axle stands.
I bought it as a project to do and the car is still going good today in New Zealand where I took it.
If I can help in anyway let me know.
Phil.

Thanks Phil, much appreciated.
I can’t seem to locate the thread either by the search on here or google, don’t suppose you have the link?
Matt

 

[philw696]

Thanks Phil, much appreciated.
I can’t seem to locate the thread either by the search on here or google, don’t suppose you have the link?
Matt

Here you go Matt.

https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/maserati-coupe-4200-project-anyone-interested.14891/

 

[Matt82]

Here you go Matt.

https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/maserati-coupe-4200-project-anyone-interested.14891/

Great stuff thanks.

Looks like, from the pictures of the pump splined shaft, that you can remove it from the back of the chain sprockets etc. without touching the chains and gears themselves. I.e. ‘A’ slides in and out of ‘14’



Is that correct? Or am I looking at it wrong?!

 

[hladun]

The rattling sound during the failure may mean that it was the drive chain that failed. So it's a case of either getting the pump out, if that's it, or disassembling the front of the engine to get to the chain. Both are major work so diagnose carefully.

 

[philw696]

Great stuff thanks.

Looks like, from the pictures of the pump splined shaft, that you can remove it from the back of the chain sprockets etc. without touching the chains and gears themselves. I.e. ‘A’ slides in and out of ‘14’

View attachment 87477

Is that correct? Or am I looking at it wrong?!

That's exactly it but it's a fair bit of work from underneath.
I bought it expecting the worse and needing an engine as it was so noisy with the lifters starved of oil.
The water pump had been leaking and rusted the shaft splines.
The pictures are on that thread.

 

[Swedish Paul]

Is the Ferrari 430 engine using the same parts?

 

[Matt82]

That's exactly it but it's a fair bit of work from underneath.
I bought it expecting the worse and needing an engine as it was so noisy with the lifters starved of oil.
The water pump had been leaking and rusted the shaft splines.
The pictures are on that thread.

Top stuff, reading through that thread it looked like a lovely car in the end.

Hoping to get cracking on stripping it done to get to the pump early next week. I may be back for guidance at some point, if that’s ok

 

[Matt82]

The rattling sound during the failure may mean that it was the drive chain that failed. So it's a case of either getting the pump out, if that's it, or disassembling the front of the engine to get to the chain. Both are major work so diagnose carefully.

Yeah, this had crossed my mind, I’ll start by getting the pump out, hope this will show an obvious failure. If not, front covers will have to come off

 

[Matt82]

Is the Ferrari 430 engine using the same parts?

looks like the same pump arrangement, however different part numbers and the little filter pots look different too

 

[philw696]

Top stuff, reading through that thread it looked like a lovely car in the end.

Hoping to get cracking on stripping it done to get to the pump early next week. I may be back for guidance at some point, if that’s ok

No problem at all happy to help and advise

 

[Matt82]

No problem at all happy to help and advise

Hi @philw696 just wanted to confirm something with you before I get the big persuader out on the oil pump!
I’m at the stage where I have taken the bolts out of the pump mountings to the block, I have managed to crack it from the block and some residual oil drained out.
Now I think I should be able to move it aft to separate it from the timing chain and thermo housing but gentle persuasion hasn’t worked, it seems very tight. There are no fastenings on the timing chain side of things are there?
I just wanted to check with you first before I get the big hammer on it, in case you can think of something I’ve missed.
Appreciate your help
M

Picture added to show the two ports I think I should be able to separate!

 

[philw696]

Hi Matt,
It will be corrosion keeping it tight in place if you have got all the Allen bolts out of the assembly.
For your info a picture of the old and new unit.

 

[Oneball]

Well done so far Matt

 

[Matt82]

Hi Matt,
It will be corrosion keeping it tight in place if you have got all the Allen bolts out of the assembly.
For your info a picture of the old and new unit.
View attachment 88169

Great stuff thanks, I just wanted a bit of reassurance before I started to tap it out.
It’s out now, splines are definitely damaged.


I’ve stuck my pinkie in the female part, feels rather smooth, unfortunately. Hoping it’s just some corrosion that I could clean out!

 

[Matt82]

Well done so far Matt

Thanks very much, it does seem like Maserati deliberately make every bolt awkward to get at!