No oil pressure today - possible oil pump failure!

[Matt82]

As I wrote in my 1st intro post, when I bought my Spyder, my intention was (is) to keep it forever. With that in mind, I have been stocking up on spares when I can find a good deal. I have numerous gasket sets, a set of motor mounts, one new, one used wheel bearing, a set of used injectors/ rails, a brand new Briarwood shift knob, used brake calipers, and a new water/oil pump. Beyond control arms, Skyhook shocks, and rotors, are there any other parts we 4200 lovers should be concerned about?

Probably all of it!
Most cars go through a phase of parts unavailability don’t they, just seems to be much earlier in the life of a Maserati

 

[Matt82]

Matt82, a few questions please
What's the mileage on the car?
Is it driven regularly, or does it sit for long periods?
Has the coolant been changed regularly? (Every 5 years with long life coolant.)

76k
Was in almost daily use for the past year, obviously can’t confirm it’s use prior to my ownership.
It’s had decent coolant in it during my ownership and it looks from the history to have had it changed at major services

 

[hladun]

76k
Was in almost daily use for the past year, obviously can’t confirm it’s use prior to my ownership.
It’s had decent coolant in it during my ownership and it looks from the history to have had it changed at major services

Thanks for the info. Have you been able to check the condition of the teeth on the drive gear? Hope you don't have to replace the gear as well. People talk about these engines getting 100K+ so the fact that there was rust (water) in the cavity means either the seal was leaking and water had migrated through the bearing or it leaked in from the outside. Was there any sign of the front bearing being ceased? If you do have to take the front cover off remember to use sealant in the o ring channel or you'll soon get an oil leak there.

 

[Matt82]

Thanks for the info. Have you been able to check the condition of the teeth on the drive gear? Hope you don't have to replace the gear as well. People talk about these engines getting 100K+ so the fact that there was rust (water) in the cavity means either the seal was leaking and water had migrated through the bearing or it leaked in from the outside. Was there any sign of the front bearing being ceased? If you do have to take the front cover off remember to use sealant in the o ring channel or you'll soon get an oil leak there.

No problem, happy to provide as much info as I can on this.
I’ve only checked the drive gear teeth from the access where the pump shaft sits, only my little finger fits in. Initially I could not feel much depth on the teeth, but having cleaned it out I can now feel the teeth better. Although this hasn’t given me sufficient confidence to use, so I have ordered the drive gear and seals etc. and have embarked on taking the front cover off. Currently at the stage where it is held on loosely by a few bolts, so I should have it completely stripped tomorrow.
Thanks for your tip reference sealant on the O ring channel, is it the number 23s you’re referring to? And when you say sealant are we talking a silicon grease or a full on gasket type sealant?



As an aside, I’ve decided the front subframe is too crusty to live with. I’ve bought a fantastically solid one to replace it with. So as I’m currently very familiar with the underside, I’m going to do it in parallel with the oil pump

 

[hladun]

Matt82, the 23's need to be sealed because they're between oil and water, but I was referring to 21. It's leaking a bit on my car and I thought it's like the valve cover gaskets, but looking at it it looks like a regular flat gasket. I'd still use some sealant to prevent leaks.

 

[Oishi]

Yes, #21 is a regular flat gasket, I have a new one in package in my gasket assortment. And yes, I would use a light coat of sealant on it.

 

[philw696]

@Matt82
Fairplay mate becoming a big project now I'm guessing you have a mechanical background too ?
Love seeing what people tackle at home to keep these glorious cars on the road when it's obvious the manufacturer isn't really interested.

 

[lifes2short]

Yes, #21 is a regular flat gasket, I have a new one in package in my gasket assortment. And yes, I would use a light coat of sealant on it.

in my day always a good idea to use blue hylomar on certain gaskets

 

[philw696]

in my day always a good idea to use blue hylomar on certain gaskets

Certainly when working on old British motors.

 

[TimR]

Went through all that last year...A smear of Dreibond is favorite in my book, although there are cheaper equivalents available...
For me, it all went a bit mad, probably 'cos of lockdown, culminating in a complete respray...! Bl00dy Covid. Its got a lot to answer for...!! lol

 

[lifes2short]

A smear of Dreibond is favorite in my book

heard it's good stuff, think BMW main dealers sell it and use it

 

[Matt82]

@Matt82
Fairplay mate becoming a big project now I'm guessing you have a mechanical background too ?
Love seeing what people tackle at home to keep these glorious cars on the road when it's obvious the manufacturer isn't really interested.

I did a Mechanical fitter and turner apprenticeship and studied mechanical engineering at college, working in the marine industry. So quite a few transferable skills to the automotive world.
Self taught on the cars though, as a result of many impulsive purchases or buying rough examples to ‘improve’ upon!!

 

[philw696]

I did a Mechanical fitter and turner apprenticeship and studied mechanical engineering at college, working in the marine industry. So quite a few transferable skills to the automotive world.
Self taught on the cars though, as a result of many impulsive purchases or buying rough examples to ‘improve’ upon!!

Engineering principles are somewhat the same so you are more than capable thats for sure.

 

[Matt82]

Bit of an update, stripped down the timing cover and removed the female drive for the oil pump.
New drive arrived from Eurospares, the difference is noticeable.

Reassembling now, have the new drive and sprocket/chain reinstalled and have the new pump fitted.
Have also exchanged the front subframe, but I’ll put that in a separate thread for future searching?

 

[Oneball]

Wow, that drive was buggered

 

[mjheathcote]

I'm shocked, it's a chunky drive that has disappeared not a fine spline that I was expecting.

 

[TimR]

Wow, that drive was buggered

It really is...!
Good work @Matt82

 

[Zep]

Looks very much like the oil pump drive from my Dad’s Audi. He drove it 20 miles with the oil light on (idiot). A new pump, a new turbo and a **** load of work and it was fine. Hopefully the same for you Matt.

Is there any way of assessing the play in the drive without stripping it down?

 

[philw696]

Afraid not Zep and without removal you wouldn't know there was any corrosion either.

 

[Matt82]

Yes as Phil says, impossible to check the state of the pump drive or pump shaft without either the timing chain cover off or the pump out, unfortunately.

Couple of things noted during the strip down, there was a bit of play in the bearing and the O seal that sits in the bore of the female drive was missing (presumably disintegrated). Whether these issues are the cause of the splines wearing away or the result of the splines being worn, I don’t know.



New coupling with seal in place against old one with seal missing


Eurospares have managed to provide everything (with the exception of the item 19, so I reused the old one, which was fine as it’s only a compensation washer)to rebuild the assembly though the casing shown above, so that is now back together and the new pump in place, with all new seals too.
Below is the list of components orders, in case anyone has the need to do this in future!



I now have another batch of spares on order for some other parts disturbed, eg cam cover gaskets, new aux belt tensioner and a few bolts and fixings that were knackered.