non starting 3200, just turning over, got fuel ok

[rs48635]

think mines fooked. Will film the action for posterity

 

[rs48635]

Ok with the ignition off, the flap should sit slightly open. when you press it shut there should be a spring force pushing back, and when you release it it should return to where it started. If it sticks fully closed then it may just need cleaned. If it feels sticky like there is a lot of friction (as opposed to spring force) then its likely the internal motor magnet is breaking up and it will need a full rebuild to fix that.
The throttle body also does a self check on start-up. So when you apply power (ignition on) it should whine and initially close then open and then sit at a partially open position with the slight whine continuous. If it starts this self test and the slight whining noise stops then it has failed its self test and its broken!!
If its just flapping around in the wind and has no force on it at all then that's weird but its possible the springs have broken, although this is pretty uncommon. I am wondering if when you say "zero spring loading" its perhaps got a lot of friction because of the magnet fault and the spring is unable to return it to its slightly open position?

Okay so ignition off - the flap in TB is inactive.
Ignition on - the flap is slightly open and will spring back when pushed shut. The whining noise is present with ignition on.
The the start-up test looks a partial success. Does not open and close. With ignition off I can open the flap. Turn ignition on the flap will return to closed position and rest partially open with whining noise.

More concern now is that fuel pressure is not detected on either fuel rail valve. Checked in boot and Both relays are working , fuses look okay.

SO - is the fuel pump defective? Or does the ECU only start the pump if other checks are passed?

 

[davy83]

Ok sounds like throttle body possibly not the prime suspect.
no fuel pressure sounds wrong. I am under the impression that the pumps run continuously, and so should develop pressure more or less straight away. Has the car been sitting for a while and/or are you in the habit of letting the fuel level run low? The fuel pump motors are designed to be immersed in petrol, if they are left dry for any time they can seize up. might be worth stripping the boot liner and measure if there is power on the two pumps on the connectors on the fuel tank?

 

[rs48635]

Ok sounds like throttle body possibly not the prime suspect.
no fuel pressure sounds wrong. I am under the impression that the pumps run continuously, and so should develop pressure more or less straight away. Has the car been sitting for a while and/or are you in the habit of letting the fuel level run low? The fuel pump motors are designed to be immersed in petrol, if they are left dry for any time they can seize up. might be worth stripping the boot liner and measure if there is power on the two pumps on the connectors on the fuel tank?

Thanks @davy83 and will follow this advice. Car has been off the road for some years and infrequently started and moved. Will get more fuel and investigate. Wonder if the fuel pump might be washed in fresh fuel and coaxed back into life.
FWIW I assumed fuel pumps ran soon as ignition on.

 

[davy83]

I am not sure if just filling it with petrol will "unseize" the motors but you could try. perhaps fill it up and leave it for a day or two. Personally if it been sitting for a long time and the motors are seized I would be thinking of replacing them. I think the motors are readily available, although complete pumps are no longer made.

 

[alfatwo]

I have a new starter motor if you need one

Dave

 

[RichTaps]

I've just replaced the pumps on mine - both pumps are only about £80 but do require you to disassemble the complete pump assembly. You'll also probably need to buy a couple of new corrugated fuel hoses that sit in the pump. Happy to give you more info if you start this job.

 

[Tallman]

I had something similar - it ended up being a bad connection to the petrol pump. Check if it is getting current. If it is, it could be the pump, if no fuel is arriving where it should. If it is not then check the electric connections/fuses/relays/wiring upstream from the pump.

 

[rs48635]

Thanks guys - will investigate later, once the day job has gone quiet. Seems we have twin pumps ? My logical brain might suggest wiring rather than both pumps gone bad. But having sat with old fuel they might be pickled. How sticky and toxic might 7 year old 95 Ron become ?

 

[Wally]

depends on how cheap it was fueled back then But serious: better do it right: get some new gaskets for the pump-covers before inspecting the pumps.
There were upgraded pump-supports for sale some time ago in Italy. : https://www.agearicambi.it/articoli.jsp?idveic=1309881645766&idcat=-529&page=2

I see the pink support (=best) is not available anymore, but you can send them a mail in english. The black one maybye is available.

 

[2b1ask1]

Post #21 = modern fuel has a shelf life; 10 years ago you were talking 2-years, currently I'd say it is getting far worse, I cannot get my strimmer to run on 6-month old fuel! If you have 7-year old fuel it WILL be your problem for sure....

It looks like fuel...
It smells like fuel...
It 'feels'like fuel...
But it wont run!

 

[rs48635]

update.
Fuel relays 2&3 all tested and working (swapped with fuel flap)
Fuel pump fuses 1 & 4 intact.
Multimeter probes too fat to get inside connector when removed from fuel pump. Ordering new meter.
Fuel pump make no noise when ignition turned on.

With Fuel pump fuse pulled I expected to measure 12v in the socket (ignition on) but zero.
What feeds the Fuel pump fuses + relay?
Been through the manual and check almost everything including under bonnet INJECTION fuses.

 

[rs48635]

Post #21 = modern fuel has a shelf life; 10 years ago you were talking 2-years, currently I'd say it is getting far worse, I cannot get my strimmer to run on 6-month old fuel! If you have 7-year old fuel it WILL be your problem for sure....

It looks like fuel...
It smells like fuel...
It 'feels'like fuel...
But it wont run!

The fuel is likely duff, but so far none of it arrives at the injectors. Unless it is solid..........

 

[Oneball]

Modern cars will usually prime the fuel systems then shut off the pumps until the engine cranks. I say modern as that might not include 3200.

Get a couple of paper clips that’ll sort your probe size out.

There’s an inertia fuel cut off in the boot somewhere I think. Worth checking it’s not tripped.

 

[SteveM]

Have you checked the blue fuse at the back of the fuse box in front of expansion tank that feeds the engine ecu. Caught me out as I thought fuel pump supply issue as well. I also had the solenoid fuel cut off fail as well - that’s located on rear near side arch

 

[rs48635]

Modern cars will usually prime the fuel systems then shut off the pumps until the engine cranks. I say modern as that might not include 3200.

Get a couple of paper clips that’ll sort your probe size out.

There’s an inertia fuel cut off in the boot somewhere I think. Worth checking it’s not tripped.

Still no pressure at the fuel rails from either relief valves. Will get a paper clip . Still need a decent new multimeter.

Good call on the fuel shut off. How do I tell if it had tripped, or more to the point how to un-trip it. Aware that a press of the cut-off is designed to stop fuel.

 

[CatmanV2]

Still no pressure at the fuel rails from either relief valves. Will get a paper clip . Still need a decent new multimeter.

Good call on the fuel shut off. How do I tell if it had tripped, or more to the point how to un-trip it. Aware that a press of the cut-off is designed to stop fuel.

Normally you press it to reset it

C

 

[Oneball]

As C said push it, it’s got a rubber cap, if it clicks back in then it’s been tripped.

 

[rs48635]

Have you checked the blue fuse at the back of the fuse box in front of expansion tank that feeds the engine ecu. Caught me out as I thought fuel pump supply issue as well. I also had the solenoid fuel cut off fail as well - that’s located on rear near side arch

Checked all the fuses in the box ahead of expansion tank (alongside the wing) and all are intact. Which fuse feeds the fuel pumps, is it number 5 15A light blue Load protection (injectors)?

Not checked any of the fuses in box at bulkhead - these are mainly lights and radiator fans.

 

[rs48635]

Normally you press it to reset it

C

Right! Back in five minutes
Pressing the fuel cut-off did not improve the situation.

Opening the pressure relief valve reveals only a smell of fuel. Am I expecting a spurt of fuel here , due to many bar of pressure? Vaguely recall this some years ago