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UlstermanAbroad

UlstermanAbroad

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Please don't be dissin' ma cousins, the Hillbillys!
FYI - the name comes from the fact that they settled the hill country of the Appalachian Mountains (southern NY State to northern Georgia) and tended to be Protestants from Ireland/Scotland who supported King William III, monarch of England, otherwise known as King Billy. Yes, its the DUP's 'Murican cousins, stirring sh*t as always.

As regards the Second Amendment. I always interpreted it to mean that the individual has the right to bear arms as part of 'a well regulated militia'. The complete amendment reads,
'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'
The Constitutional Convention was most concerned that the Executive did not over-reach itself in a similar way to the way monarchs ruled the UK. They saw locally raised militias as being one of the balancing elements to a federal government and military.
That's only my interpretation and not supported by anything I've researched. Context is all though. The argument cuts both ways. Arms were necessary on the frontier of what was then a tiny grouping of colonies, situated on the east coast of a massive unexplored continent. Frontier life being precarious at best, with no law enforcement.
Based on snippets of news that I've heard this week. There does seem to be some kind of consensus forming in Congress, around enhanced background checks before purchase of firearms. What else might be included in legislation is anyone's guess. But, is unlikely to change things materially on the ground.
 
CatmanV2

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UlstermanAbroad said:
As regards the Second Amendment. I always interpreted it to mean that the individual has the right to bear arms as part of 'a well regulated militia'. The complete amendment reads,
'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'
Click to expand...

I think your parsing is somewhat suspect. There are two statements
  1. A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state.
  2. The right of the people etc etc

Two is not, IMHO, dependent on one.

The idea is that the raising of a militia may be required at any time and thus, ones citizens had better be armed to facilitate that.

(Just for the avoidance of doubt I'm not a huge fan of guns for all)

C
 
mowlas

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It’s good that there are so many amendments - it shows that the US constitution can be amended.

But all this talk of amendments is obfuscation. The plain fact is that the NRA will not allow anything to reduce gun sales. Therefore common sense reforms like mental health screening and not being able to sell guns second hand without controls won’t be enabled by corrupt politicians. The NRA are chief amongst those who have successfully tied up the notions of constitution, patriotism, liberty etc. as being incompatible with any common sense controls.

Democrats have lately been at pains to say it’s not about attacking 2A, it’s about applying common sense controls. But it suits the NRA and corrupt lawmakers to polarise the public to choose between false black and white arguments.
 
Wack61

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Swedish Paul said:
What I want to know is how come there is always a shortage of guns and a surplus of zombies in all the movies and tv shows?
Click to expand...

It's finding the right house, if there are 300 guns in a typical US street of 500 hundred houses that'll be no guns in most and 10 guns in 30 houses, by the time you pick the right house they're chomping bits off and you're one of them.
 
UlstermanAbroad

UlstermanAbroad

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CatmanV2 said:
I think your parsing is somewhat suspect. There are two statements
  1. A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state.
  2. The right of the people etc etc
Two is not, IMHO, dependent on one.

The idea is that the raising of a militia may be required at any time and thus, ones citizens had better be armed to facilitate that.

(Just for the avoidance of doubt I'm not a huge fan of guns for all)

C
Click to expand...
Ah. Thank you. I didn't look up a verbatim quote. Just something from a random website.
That makes sense. Given the posse comitatus legislation.
 
UlstermanAbroad

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Wack61 said:
It's finding the right house, if there are 300 guns in a typical US street of 500 hundred houses that'll be no guns in most and 10 guns in 30 houses, by the time you pick the right house they're chomping bits off and you're one of them.
Click to expand...
I would argue to the contrary Wack. In my experience. Limited as it is. Law abiding city dwellers tend not to own firearms.
Depending on the state and how it regulates firearm ownership. There may be a high proportion of firearm owners
in the suburbs. And by firearm owners, I mean owners of multiple firearms, kept in a gun safe.
This applies across socio economic backgrounds. For example. Several years ago, when I worked in the U.S. for a prominent multinational, I recruited an American CEO for an oil and gas SBU start-up in Houston. His first year package was roughly $500,000. Possibly a fair bit more, when you factor in healthcare and other benefits. Doesn't matter.
He was relocating from Washington State to Houston. I chatted with him regularly to make sure his move was as smooth as possible. He told me one day, when we were chatting over coffee. That his biggest hassle wasn't the kids moving schools. Wasn't selling the move to his wife. It wasn't physically packing and moving.
It was moving his firearm collection across state lines, because of the differing rules governing firearm ownership.
Its a common problem for people relocating and apparently there's a system of temporary permits or similar to cover the move. But, he told me that he had to contact the major police departments of the states he was crossing to advise them what he was carrying, where from, where to and how. He had hunting rifles. A couple of large calibre revolvers. A couple of Glock pistols. A shotgun or two. And ample ammunition.
He was moving to the best neighbourhood in Houston. Naturally. Because Houston can be rough, in parts.
It wasn't the fact that he had firearms that was the eye opener for me. It was how many and how big the calibres were. The revolvers were .357. That will take off a limb, with the right kind of ammunition, if the bullet hits right.
His Glocks were .40. Those were for home defence and for use by himself and his wife. As were the shotguns. Which were also heavy calibre. The rifles were of various calibres, to suit different game. This guy wasn't off the cover of Hunting Quarterly or Soldier of Fortune. He was Ivy League educated with an impeccable CV.
He fully expected his new neighbours to be similarly armed. And they were. Just as his neighbours were, in the town he left in Washington State.
Rural dwellers are another case entirely.
On the subject of zombies or other flesh eating critters. If you're only looking for firearms after society has broken down and the human smorgasbord is being served on every street corner. Then you're too late and likely to be zombie chow before you can say, finger lickin' good!
You need ready access to a variety of firearms, ahead of time. Plus, you need a bug out plan of how to get to an easily defensible remote structure, with water, food and meds, to last months. It is possible. Say, by joining the TA.
Or making friends with people in the TA/RNVR etc etc
Have a nice day. Lamb chop! ;)
 
UlstermanAbroad

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I heard on BBC R4 news earlier that Trump addressed the annual convention of the NRA this week, saying that the answer to school shootings was more guns. By arming teachers.
I had to switch off at that point. It was too depressing.
 
midlifecrisis

midlifecrisis

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UlstermanAbroad said:
I would argue to the contrary Wack. In my experience. Limited as it is. Law abiding city dwellers tend not to own firearms.
Depending on the state and how it regulates firearm ownership. There may be a high proportion of firearm owners
in the suburbs. And by firearm owners, I mean owners of multiple firearms, kept in a gun safe.
This applies across socio economic backgrounds. For example. Several years ago, when I worked in the U.S. for a prominent multinational, I recruited an American CEO for an oil and gas SBU start-up in Houston. His first year package was roughly $500,000. Possibly a fair bit more, when you factor in healthcare and other benefits. Doesn't matter.
He was relocating from Washington State to Houston. I chatted with him regularly to make sure his move was as smooth as possible. He told me one day, when we were chatting over coffee. That his biggest hassle wasn't the kids moving schools. Wasn't selling the move to his wife. It wasn't physically packing and moving.
It was moving his firearm collection across state lines, because of the differing rules governing firearm ownership.
Its a common problem for people relocating and apparently there's a system of temporary permits or similar to cover the move. But, he told me that he had to contact the major police departments of the states he was crossing to advise them what he was carrying, where from, where to and how. He had hunting rifles. A couple of large calibre revolvers. A couple of Glock pistols. A shotgun or two. And ample ammunition.
He was moving to the best neighbourhood in Houston. Naturally. Because Houston can be rough, in parts.
It wasn't the fact that he had firearms that was the eye opener for me. It was how many and how big the calibres were. The revolvers were .357. That will take off a limb, with the right kind of ammunition, if the bullet hits right.
His Glocks were .40. Those were for home defence and for use by himself and his wife. As were the shotguns. Which were also heavy calibre. The rifles were of various calibres, to suit different game. This guy wasn't off the cover of Hunting Quarterly or Soldier of Fortune. He was Ivy League educated with an impeccable CV.
He fully expected his new neighbours to be similarly armed. And they were. Just as his neighbours were, in the town he left in Washington State.
Rural dwellers are another case entirely.
On the subject of zombies or other flesh eating critters. If you're only looking for firearms after society has broken down and the human smorgasbord is being served on every street corner. Then you're too late and likely to be zombie chow before you can say, finger lickin' good!
You need ready access to a variety of firearms, ahead of time. Plus, you need a bug out plan of how to get to an easily defensible remote structure, with water, food and meds, to last months. It is possible. Say, by joining the TA.
Or making friends with people in the TA/RNVR etc etc
Have a nice day. Lamb chop! ;)
Click to expand...
It's a truly sad state of affairs to have the need to own such weaponry.

As for zombie apocalypse, I have trusty Gunn and Moore cricket bat and a safe route to the Winchester, to drink in and wait for it to all blow over.
 
midlifecrisis

midlifecrisis

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UlstermanAbroad said:
I heard on BBC R4 news earlier that Trump addressed the annual convention of the NRA this week, saying that the answer to school shootings was more guns. By arming teachers.
I had to switch off at that point. It was too depressing.
Click to expand...
Yes I heard that, that was basically a repeat of the NRAs call to arm teachers.
Imagine a high school teacher having to arm themselves and they get overpowered by a kid who's also a running back and shot.
 
RodTungsten

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UlstermanAbroad said:
I heard on BBC R4 news earlier that Trump addressed the annual convention of the NRA this week, saying that the answer to school shootings was more guns. By arming teachers.
I had to switch off at that point. It was too depressing.
Click to expand...
… and Trump’s roll call of the 21 recent victims. The NRA clearly tone deaf or irony lite. I despair.
After a disciplinary for one of my staff in the US others were concerned that the person’s spouse might come after me - going postal as they called it. This was MA!
 
Oneball

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UlstermanAbroad said:
I heard on BBC R4 news earlier that Trump addressed the annual convention of the NRA this week, saying that the answer to school shootings was more guns. By arming teachers.
I had to switch off at that point. It was too depressing.
Click to expand...

Might sort out school shootings but is not much help to the other 4500 children killed by guns each year.
 
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