Rattle at idle 4200 and oil change

[marino]

Hi all Ive just purchased a manual 4200 gt its a 2003 car , its been off the road for many years I bought it as a non runner but it does now run with a fresh battery . When the car is idling there is a very pronounced rattle that goes when the clutch is depressed , under the car the noise is in the torque tube and gearbox, with a stethoscope it sounds louder in the tube but its hard to be specific. Someone has not long ago had the clutch to pieces as its clearly been out and a poor job with brackets left off and the front exhaust support is missing. any ideas? are there renewable bearings in the tube? . The gearbox mount is very soft you can lift the box up and down easilly looking on youtube this seems wrong there is a slight vibration in the car at low revs but nothing is touching . One engine mount is new. Have just ordered an oil filter and wondered if there were any special procedures to a dry sump oil change and should I also change the little filters in the oil pump housing? Sorry so many questions . Im exited to finally own one of these cars and also slightly scared for some bizzare reason .

Marino

 

[Mr.Cambio]

Hello and welcome. It can be one of its bearings (spigot or release), that's the reason they are replaced in every clutch change.
On the other hand, i have a noise from the bell for years which, according to my engineer is something to live with, as if i change the complete bell, the noise will re occur after a while. Not a noise of concern.

But your noise looks a lot more like the one i explained above, re bearing.
Hope this helps.

 

[2b1ask1]

Welcome and enjoy; never heard of any issues with the torque tubes, the clutches do rattle on occasions, as most are cambiocorsas the rattle occurs when the clutch fully disengages after some time in neutral, so most don't experience it. There are a few on here well versed in manual cars and I'm sure they will assist, mostly ar Terry from Nor Ir'n who regularly replaces the clutch on 'Nozzie' as they are rather tortured by the boost! He can advise you on bleeding the clutch successfully too.

 

[FIFTY]

Hi Marino

I have had exactly the same problem with my car. The noise goes away when the clutch pedal is down

I have had clutch, flywheel, thrust bearing, spigot bearing changed.

We have found the noise coming from the Torque Tube.

The tube is technically non serviceable but I have found a specialist in the UK who just finished refurbishing my TT. It took them a couple of months of experimental work but they finally got there. It will be fitted back onto my car by AV Engineering in the coming days

The specialist found that the bearing closest to the bell housing was the most tired but they had all some wear in them

Some photos of their work which they agreed that I could share on the forum

I wanted to wait until I got the car back to share this so I could be sure it all works but it sounds like you have the exact same issue so hopefully this helps you.

 

[FIFTY]

Drop me a PM if you would like details of the company and information on cost, etc.

 

[2b1ask1]

THank you Fifty; well every day IS a school day

 

[FIFTY]

THank you Fifty; well every day IS a school day

I wish you were correct and they did not fail...

The noise that comes from under the car is like a trolley jack being pulled down a drive.. It was there for quite a long time and progressively got louder

I have also had to change a stub axle bearing on the gearbox/diff.

I think both of the above were present upon purchase of the car 5+years ago and have become so prevalent that they needed rectification now.

 

[Zep]

FIFTY has you right on the torque tube, they do get noisier, but his is the first I have known to be rebuilt.

Regarding the oil change, nothing particularly special. Always use the drain plug on the bottom of the tank, not the pipe that goes to the oil pump to drain the oil, there is also a drain plug in the bottom of the crankcase you need to drain from, it’s roughly in the middle between the exhausts. The filter is a pig to get to, so if you can, get the wrench to allow you to undo and tighten it. It’s an 86mm diameter 18 flutes. Also check the bit on the oil pipe for cracking, there is a solution if you find cracks.

https://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/index.php?threads/diy-oil-change-gearbox-fluid-change.30080/post-729708

The gearbox mount sounds too soft, and is no longer available, but you can use a Quattroporte mount instead.

 

[nfm]

Eurospares have a used gearbox mount listed? (186908). Welcome to the manual club, not many of us.

 

[Zep]

Eurospares have a used gearbox mount listed? (186908). Welcome to the manual club, not many of us.

What I don’t get about that is that the used one is more expensive than a new QPV one. Nice work if you can get it I suppose!

 

[oaros]

Hi Fifty, can you share who rebuilt it? I can see needing that, not just for my 4200 but also the 928.
Thanks

 

[FIFTY]

Hi Fifty, can you share who rebuilt it? I can see needing that, not just for my 4200 but also the 928.
Thanks

You have a PM

I am not sharing who it is on the public forum until the car is reassembled and tested... Not long now.

 

[FIFTY]

FIFTY has you right on the torque tube, they do get noisier, but his is the first I have known to be rebuilt.

Second... This chap had a buckled drive shaft! https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/torque-tube-vibration-cambio-corsa.2229/

 

[boomerang]

Years ago i dismantled my torque tube, after buying a very low milage one at David Askew.
Bearings (noises) where not the problem, vibration was.
These cars all suffer from drive line vibrations, some more, some less,
Mostly in the 2800-3500 rpm range.

I also clamped the inner shaft into a device on wich we could ceck run out.
We determined then, that vibrations (often the prelude of bearing wear) must have been caused by bended sections of the inner shaft.
Run out exceeded 1mm at some point! ( even though it was 2mm, but clearly was wrong reading my old post, thanks FIFTY )
This type of shaft twists a little when loaded heavy, functioning as a kind of torque damper, but the shaft will suffer run out sooner or later.
Especially those Idiot stop light sprints will be bad for this type of shafts I presume.

Still thinking about a custom CFK inner shaft without any, or max 2 bearings.
A great next fall/winter project maybe.
Contacted a German producer from CFK torque tubes, who could do the job.
Will be expensive though.
And will we need a damper of some kind?
For easing out torque pikes, as CFK is a very rigid material.
That is the question that is being discussed at the moment.

 

[BL330]

Hi All,
Thanks for that description "The noise that comes from under the car is like a trolley jack being pulled down a drive ."
I have that too and sourced a low kilometre Torque Tube for $800, which is still to be fitted.
Big job, so I'll get my guy to check his clutch work from a couple of years ago while everything is out.
Mine is a high kilometre car, so things are expected to wear out.