Return of supersonic flight

mowlas

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From The Times today:
American Airlines has put in an order for 60 aircraft capable of flying at 1.7 times the speed of sound, returning the prospect of 3 hour transatlantic flights!

Boom is a start-up based in Denver, Colorado, whose development of Overture, an ultra-fast successor to Concorde that seats 65 to 88 passengers, is so advanced that it showed off designs at last month’s Farnborough air show. Production starts in 2024 and due go into testing in 2026.

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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/american-airlines-orders-60-overture-supersonic-jets-l5mmh63jf
 
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Alan Surrey

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Have you been aboard the Concorde prototype at Duxford? It shows what they are up against. Forced air cooling for the windows to stop the external air friction from burning them. Just one of the things you might not think of at first but have to fix solidly before a passenger goes aboard.
Quite different problems to the ones a military jet designer faces.

Exciting thought though.
 

Ewan

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60 supersonic planes, to fly from NY to London? Where’s the demand for that?
Given you can only fly at those speeds over sea (to avoid supersonic booms over land), there are are very few routes that are geographically and economically viable. Which is why the UK and France struggled to sell even 10 Concords all those years ago.
And now that Banks are subjected to higher levels of scrutiny, will they pay their staff to fly supersonic to NY at, say, £10k a seat? Will shareholders, environmentalists and Governments allow it?
 

Ewan

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How can it have windows as big as that shown in the mock-up? I thought the reason Concords‘ windows were so small was that if one blew, only a manageable amount of air would escape while the plane descended to an appropriate height.

Must be said I’m no aviation expert, so I could be talking rubbish!
 

mowlas

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60 supersonic planes, to fly from NY to London? Where’s the demand for that?
Given you can only fly at those speeds over sea (to avoid supersonic booms over land), there are are very few routes that are geographically and economically viable. Which is why the UK and France struggled to sell even 10 Concords all those years ago.
And now that Banks are subjected to higher levels of scrutiny, will they pay their staff to fly supersonic to NY at, say, £10k a seat? Will shareholders, environmentalists and Governments allow it?
Behind the headline numbers the reality is that American has placed a firm order for 20 and an option to take a further 40. Meanwhile, rival United Airlines has placed an order for15 with an option to take another 35. It will indeed be interesting to understand the technology, analysis and funding model behind these decisions… have no clue personally.
 

bigbob

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Fixed geometry inlets below Mach 1.7, variable inlets needed above that. Much simpler design parameters for almost the same performance.
I defer to your knowledge (I genuinely don’t have a clue) but it’s a shame to not match or better something designed in the 60s. Nothing beats arriving in JFK before you leave LHR even if you are not important enough for the time saving to really mean anything. Shame it wasn’t bigger and ate less fuel…and made less noise…and the Americans were not so difficult about it.
 

Wack61

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Concorde lost many of its best customers 9/11 which was really what took it out of the air.

I really don't get the need for high speed transport, technology has moved on, video conferencing is available on a phone today , looking at the technology behind the abba show it won't be long before holographic conferencing is a thing

Yes fly to new york in 4 hours for millionaires and billionaires why wouldn't you but is it necessary in the 21st century , burning all that fuel so 88 rich people can get somewhere a bit faster while the rest of us get shafted for driving an ICE car , not in my opinion

HS2 is being scaled back, by the time it's built the self driving EV will be here , 5 people will get driven door to door, I wonder how much 5 returns London to Glasgow on hs2 will be.
 

Felonious Crud

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How can it have windows as big as that shown in the mock-up? I thought the reason Concords‘ windows were so small was that if one blew, only a manageable amount of air would escape while the plane descended to an appropriate height.

Must be said I’m no aviation expert, so I could be talking rubbish!

I applaud the technology but must agree with Ewan and others here. Why, who's it for? unless these things have a lower environmental footprint per passenger than current aircraft, I just can't see how it can be justified.
 

bigbob

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Concorde lost many of its best customers 9/11 which was really what took it out of the air.

I really don't get the need for high speed transport, technology has moved on, video conferencing is available on a phone today , looking at the technology behind the abba show it won't be long before holographic conferencing is a thing

Yes fly to new york in 4 hours for millionaires and billionaires why wouldn't you but is it necessary in the 21st century , burning all that fuel so 88 rich people can get somewhere a bit faster while the rest of us get shafted for driving an ICE car , not in my opinion

HS2 is being scaled back, by the time it's built the self driving EV will be here , 5 people will get driven door to door, I wonder how much 5 returns London to Glasgow on hs2 will be.
The main problem is that the super rich have gone to private jets and often fractional ownership thereof so If this works price point wise it needs to be pulling people out of front of normal airliners.

Everyone has a carbon footprint but for some reason people seem to think that taking a few bucket airline trips to Europe every year does not count. Ditto getting food delivered by some poor minimum wage guy driving a knackered old car which spends most of its life blocking bus lanes. Not having a pop at you but there are lots we can all do - my shopping car uses a third of the fuel of my Maser but I still own the latter.
 

Felonious Crud

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The main problem is that the super rich have gone to private jets and often fractional ownership thereof so If this works price point wise it needs to be pulling people out of front of normal airliners.

Everyone has a carbon footprint but for some reason people seem to think that taking a few bucket airline trips to Europe every year does not count. Ditto getting food delivered by some poor minimum wage guy driving a knackered old car which spends most of its life blocking bus lanes. Not having a pop at you but there are lots we can all do - my shopping car uses a third of the fuel of my Maser but I still own the latter.
You make a good point. Many wealthier families took to private jet usage during / after the pandemic, often splitting the cost with friends taking the same holiuday. An old business associate of mine would always fly private for family holidays because it generally worked out less than the cost of a large family's worth of first-class tickets, and a lot more convenient. I'd love to see the business case for this aircraft, and especially the target demographic.
 

bigbob

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You make a good point. Many wealthier families took to private jet usage during / after the pandemic, often splitting the cost with friends taking the same holiuday. An old business associate of mine would always fly private for family holidays because it generally worked out less than the cost of a large family's worth of first-class tickets, and a lot more convenient. I'd love to see the business case for this aircraft, and especially the target demographic.
As long as it includes fast track immigration at JFK then it might work.
 

Felonious Crud

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The last time I went through JFK I had booked economy but had been upgraded to Club for some random and wholly appropriate reason. I was strangely quite happy and answered all the questions like Jason Bourne would have.
The downside of travelling at the pointy-end is the free-flowing booze.

60 supersonic planes, to fly from NY to London? Where’s the demand for that?
Given you can only fly at those speeds over sea (to avoid supersonic booms over land), there are are very few routes that are geographically and economically viable. Which is why the UK and France struggled to sell even 10 Concords all those years ago.
And now that Banks are subjected to higher levels of scrutiny, will they pay their staff to fly supersonic to NY at, say, £10k a seat? Will shareholders, environmentalists and Governments allow it?
btw, I'd guess a good bit more than 10k. Concorde was about 10k, a First week-day return now isn't much less. You can man-math it to say you save two hotel nights, but that would need to be one heck of a hotel!
 
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Felonious Crud

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Newark...gotta be Newark
I've never flown through Newark. Better than JFK?

A thunk occurred to me about this supersonic blah blah. London-NY is an easy media comparison. Like 0-60. Out to the left of the US is of course also Asia, so speeding up flights between the west coast Asia and ANZ would yield a heavy competitive edge for anyone running these aircraft. I can see them being a prestige plane to operate, same as the 747 and then the A380s were.

Still, the environmental aspects and the ticket price are the big question marks. And comfort. Concorde was a cramped little sod. A380s are quiet, spacious and smooth. Chalk and cheese, in many ways.
 

midlifecrisis

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Yawn, yet another ill conceived business idea to generate interest in some under performing company stateside to attract investment.

Zoom/teams etc has cut a lot of business travel out. I'm talking about the internal company meeting that were pointless to travel to.
The high rollers will use a bizjet to go transatlantic such as a Gulfstream G650 from Farnborough.

Why go to Heathrow and mix with the general population they carry diseases.