The end is nigh

MRichards

Member
Messages
278
Hydrogen is the future. Our local council have two Toyota Mirai hydrogen cars. They are even better styled than your average cake of soap on wheels Toyota. The council uses the nearby Toyota factory to refuel,and that's the only problem,no other hydrogen refuelling stations.
 

davy83

Member
Messages
2,809
I purchased my BMW i3 just outside Basingstoke and drove it back to Aberdeen in Scotland over 2 days and it was a great trip. The car is great fund to drive, does 60 in 6.5 seconds so its not slow, and I had no problems getting it charged up, it also did more or less the range it said it would. Ok I stopped more than would in an ICE car but at my age that is actually quite nice, and handy given my prostate is goosed. It recharges in about 20 minutes so no big issue there really. OK I have the range extender version and perhaps if I didn't have the little bike engine in the boot I might have struggled, but generally there are quite a lot of chargers about and Zap Map shows you where they are and which ones are broken, it just takes a little more planning than an ICE vehicle.
I still drive my 3200 and still love the surge of power from those turbos, and the theatre of it all, but my daily is electric and I am enjoying it not because I feel like I am saving the planet (not sure whether that's true really) but because its a good car, and its fun to drive, and makes perfect sense for short journeys and commuting in and out of the city.


For now though, the prospect of owning an electric car in the UK doesn't look appealing.
 

dickygrace

www.richardgracecars.co.uk
Messages
7,309
Cars have been white goods for 20 years now. Cars as a reflection of your lifestyle, or an extension of ‘who you are’ has been on the wane for at least a decade - helped along by the shrinking number of actual manufacturers and the difference, or lack of, between them - everyone knows an Audi is a Skoda is a Seat is a VW. Car enthusiasts are a shrinking and aging minority, ditto anyone who cares about the freedom that driving (driving anything) gives you which is why no one one will really complain when non-autonomous cars are outlawed... which won’t be long after the electric takeover anyway....
The newest car I ever bought was 6 years old...
All of the above is why I’m finding it hard to be surprised or care too much about this news...

But I would like it if people - especially your under 30s - would realise the lie that even if every car in the world went electric, this ain’t gonna save the world* and in fact it’s pi55ing in the wind with regard to climate change unless global population stops growing, AND we stop making more and more useless sh1t to throw away and replace every 5 minutes...


(*Less than one quarter of uk total greenhouse gas production coming from ALL transport, including freight...how much of that from cars? Less than half again? That would be conservative looking at how much fuel trucks gets through... So, one eighth? Repeated globally? Wake up and drink your fair trade coffee, kids...... But remember to put the cup in the green bin, so your council can freight it to Asia and landfill it)

Exactly my view too, can I plagiarise this and put on an IKEA type poster in downstairs loo?
 

davy83

Member
Messages
2,809
Cars have been white goods for 20 years now. Cars as a reflection of your lifestyle, or an extension of ‘who you are’ has been on the wane for at least a decade - helped along by the shrinking number of actual manufacturers and the difference, or lack of, between them - everyone knows an Audi is a Skoda is a Seat is a VW. Car enthusiasts are a shrinking and aging minority, ditto anyone who cares about the freedom that driving (driving anything) gives you which is why no one one will really complain when non-autonomous cars are outlawed... which won’t be long after the electric takeover anyway....
The newest car I ever bought was 6 years old...
All of the above is why I’m finding it hard to be surprised or care too much about this news...

But I would like it if people - especially your under 30s - would realise the lie that even if every car in the world went electric, this ain’t gonna save the world* and in fact it’s pi55ing in the wind with regard to climate change unless global population stops growing, AND we stop making more and more useless sh1t to throw away and replace every 5 minutes...


(*Less than one quarter of uk total greenhouse gas production coming from ALL transport, including freight...how much of that from cars? Less than half again? That would be conservative looking at how much fuel trucks gets through... So, one eighth? Repeated globally? Wake up and drink your fair trade coffee, kids...... But remember to put the cup in the green bin, so your council can freight it to Asia and landfill it)
I can only agree on population growth, that's the real problem. However you are suggesting we do nothing, which I don't really think is a great plan either, I think we need to do more not less. No electric cars will not save the planet, but it might help a little.
 

dickygrace

www.richardgracecars.co.uk
Messages
7,309
I can only agree on population growth, that's the real problem. However you are suggesting we do nothing, which I don't really think is a great plan either, I think we need to do more not less. No electric cars will not save the planet, but it might help a little.

I believe the way to go is to do nothing re emissions but to absorb the CO2 in clever new ways. There are a number of ideas currently being developed such as soil sequestration management and algae bioreactors. I believe that’s the way to go.
As the founders of the world’s industrial revolution, we cannot deny the developing world the progress and gentrification we all enjoy in our lives.
 

Markc

Member
Messages
258
I believe the way to go is to do nothing re emissions but to absorb the CO2 in clever new ways. There are a number of ideas currently being developed such as soil sequestration management and algae bioreactors. I believe that’s the way to go.
As the founders of the world’s industrial revolution, we cannot deny the developing world the progress and gentrification we all enjoy in our lives.
^^^This. Back when I was working a fellow Director and I took a Malaysian client out for lunch, during which my colleague made some fairly damning comments about Malay ruining the environment by cutting down ancient and rainforest for Palm Oil plantations. What happened next was a 30 minute dressing down from the client outlining Britain’s industrial history and its environmental consequences. Concluding with the observation that: “it was alright for us Brits but now no one else is allowed to prosper. **** that.” My colleague was a bit uncomfortable. I was p!ssing myself. Not condoning deforestation but moralising about it is straight hypocrisy. Therefore carbon capture seems sensible with the added bonus of continued ICE. Won’t happen mind!
 

Delmonte

Member
Messages
878
I can only agree on population growth, that's the real problem. However you are suggesting we do nothing, which I don't really think is a great plan either, I think we need to do more not less. No electric cars will not save the planet, but it might 8help a little.

My point was that the little that electric cars - even a 100% global conversion - does do a little, but its so little, its of no help. A drop of water from a pool. A grain of sand in a desert etc... In scientific terms, 'trace' - detectable but so small as to make no difference. Thats my beef when people say theyre 'doing their bit'. The best way to do your bit is to have no kids....

And i wasn't suggesting do nothing - it seems clear the only way is to stop population growth - and end consumerism.
 

Silvercat

Member
Messages
1,166
My point was that the little that electric cars - even a 100% global conversion - does do a little, but its so little, its of no help. A drop of water from a pool. A grain of sand in a desert etc... In scientific terms, 'trace' - detectable but so small as to make no difference. Thats my beef when people say theyre 'doing their bit'. The best way to do your bit is to have no kids....

And i wasn't suggesting do nothing - it seems clear the only way is to stop population growth - and end consumerism.
And stop eating Beef...Methane from cattle farting is 4 times more potent than CO2. So less demand for beef means less cows wondering around which means less methane gas. Result!
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,220
Beef farming on arable land in temperate climates is not the problem; cattle farming in deserts, stripping prime forest to cattle farm or plant palm oil is the problem. Transporting exotic (and basic) food half way around the globe is not sustainable.

Efficient carbon capture is coming I'm confident.
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
what about the dirty great container ships?


Why is it important to pay more attention to ship emissions?
Ships’ detrimental impact on air quality continues to increase as the sector grows. Land-based emissions – SOx and NOx – on the other hand, particularly from fixed installations, have been reduced dramatically at great cost. NOx from shipping is set to exceed NOx from all EU land-based sources in the coming decade.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
what about the dirty great container ships?


Why is it important to pay more attention to ship emissions?
Ships’ detrimental impact on air quality continues to increase as the sector grows. Land-based emissions – SOx and NOx – on the other hand, particularly from fixed installations, have been reduced dramatically at great cost. NOx from shipping is set to exceed NOx from all EU land-based sources in the coming decade.

The big issue with NOx is its effect on human health particularly in towns. Not many container ships on the Kings Road.
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
what about the dirty great container ships?


Why is it important to pay more attention to ship emissions?
Ships’ detrimental impact on air quality continues to increase as the sector grows. Land-based emissions – SOx and NOx – on the other hand, particularly from fixed installations, have been reduced dramatically at great cost. NOx from shipping is set to exceed NOx from all EU land-based sources in the coming decade.
And don't even get me started on cruise ships (Floating P!ss barges) . This is only the sulphur dioxide - not CO2


AirPollution-Carnival.png
 

Saigon

Member
Messages
778
And stop eating Beef...Methane from cattle farting is 4 times more potent than CO2. So less demand for beef means less cows wondering around which means less methane gas. Result!
There are 987 million cattle in India, probably a lot more before I finish writing this, and they don’t even eat cattle, or at least the majority don’t. Anyway, every steak you eat means there is one less contributor to the methane problem, I will continue eating as many as possible and doing my bit for the environment.
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
The big issue with NOx is its effect on human health particularly in towns. Not many container ships on the Kings Road.
Any holiday plans for these locations? Or family there?
Spain, Italy, Greece, France and Norway are the most exposed countries to cruise ship air pollution in Europe.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
Any holiday plans for these locations? Or family there?
Spain, Italy, Greece, France and Norway are the most exposed countries to cruise ship air pollution in Europe.

It dissipates. The issue with it from cars in towns is that it gets trapped at ground level.
 

davy83

Member
Messages
2,809
I can’t think of anything I would trust less than an Italian Electric car
Their 12volt systems leave a lot to be desired and they just power the lights!
yes perhaps, lets hope they get the drive train and batteries from somewhere else :)
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
Audi have announced they are pulling out of Formula E and going back to WEC, Le Mans and IMSA and a new Dakar programme.