4200 Timing Chain Replacement

[omar_little]

Hello Forum

I need some advice regarding the timing chain on my 2005 4200. The car has 96,000 miles on the clock. I've owned it for over 13 years now. My garage reported that the engine is making more noise than it should from the timing chain mechanism and have recommended replacing the timing chain. It's a big job. Has anyone replaced the timing chain on a 4200? Any idea as to how long the job should take?

I'm hoping that the noise is being caused by the timing chain, but equally they could uncover something else once they start the job. Any thoughts/experience of this??

 

[conaero]

Usually when there is noise from the timing chain it’s a broken lower guide. The nylon guide snaps off at the top and it sits in the bottom of the timing case.

Your garage is correct that the entire chain kit should be replaced.

If your car has the full Ali undertray then the manifolds have to charge me off first as all the ancillaries have to come off.

I would check first that it’s definitely not the AC pump rattling.

 

[omar_little]

Thanks Conaero

Good to know.

The A/C compressor front bearing was worn and loose. A new A/C compressor was fitted recently and unfortunately the noise from the engine continued.

 

[Andy4200]

Hi, I've just changed my timing chain and all guides etc a couple of months ago.
It was a big job but satisfying to get it done. My 4200 has 104k miles and had a start up rattle. This seems to have been caused by a weak hydraulic tensioner. All seems good now.
To do the job required:
Remove throttle body and intake pipe,
Remove rad and fans, move ac and power steering rads out of the way.
Ac pump loosened and held out of the way,
Various pipework around the front removed of held out of the way,
A good rattle gun to remove crank bolt.

Once access was cleared the removal of the front cover was OK keep note of all the bolt locations.
I made a jig to hold the inlet cams in place and locked the flywheel in place with a tool I made.
Mark everything up with paint timing lines to ensure correct reassembly.

As long as you are confident and have time it's doable but you definitely need to concentrate when changing all the chains!

 

[Ebenezer]

Why did they add the nylon chain guides rather than just letting them go straight from a to b? Seems an unnecessary friction/failure point. But I guess there is a good reason!

Eb

 

[omar_little]

Thanks Andy

This would be a massive stretch for me to do myself. I wish I had the skills to try, but realistically I'd probably end up doing more damage than good.

Would you say four days effort is a reasonable estimate?

 

[CatmanV2]

Why did they add the nylon chain guides rather than just letting them go straight from a to b? Seems an unnecessary friction/failure point. But I guess there is a good reason!

Eb

Possibly to prevent some lash on the longer run?

C

 

[Forcerouge]

Why did they add the nylon chain guides rather than just letting them go straight from a to b? Seems an unnecessary friction/failure point. But I guess there is a good reason!

Eb

This is mainly to reduce noise and vibrations. They slightly help for tension too but almost all the tensioning work is done by the tensioners (sounds a bit obvious hehe).
Last but not least, they help getting the chain going a bit more around the sprokets, which gives more contact surface because more chain links are engaged at any given time, so less stress on both the sprokets and the chain. Better changing the chain guides than the chain sprockets.

These are usually PTFE plastic which has a very low friction coefficient

 

[Andy4200]

I would say 4 days would be reasonable. If you have to remove a manifold to be able to move the ac compressor then that may cause problems.
I have made a removable section of heat shield to allow me to get at the compressor.
Conaero would give you the best estimate as he runs SportsItalia.

You have to be careful as well. I nearly lost the tip of my finger in the chain as one of the cams whipped back whilst removing it!

 

[hladun]

I would say 4 days would be reasonable. If you have to remove a manifold to be able to move the ac compressor then that may cause problems.
I have made a removable section of heat shield to allow me to get at the compressor.
Conaero would give you the best estimate as he runs SportsItalia.

You have to be careful as well. I nearly lost the tip of my finger in the chain as one of the cams whipped back whilst removing it!

The chains and guides look in great shape, did you actually find something broken/worn out? Most importantly, did this work solve the problem? Can't the hydraulic tensioners just be changed externally?

 

[Andy4200]

Actually all the photos except the second one show the new chains and guides.
Yes the tensioners could be changed separately but I thought at 104k miles, it gave me and any other subsequent owner, piece of mind. It also seemed to fix my problem.
One of the guides did have a clip broken but it hadn't moved.
These pics show the worst wear I had on the guides/tensioner. Not a lot for 104k miles!

 

[hladun]

For an engine with a 100k miles on it the internals look in great shape. It's a shame that probably some of the best engines ever built are sitting idle because owners are afraid to drive them. My Spyder is my summer daily driver so it does get used.

 

[HTAFC4200]

It's great to see the internal parts in such good condition. I'm growing in confidence regarding the longevity of the drivetrain on the 4200.

I certainly intend on putting some miles on mine.

I've got plenty of clutch life lol

 

[omar_little]

Latest update on the timing chain replacement. The timing chains are certainly worn but there is also one other factor which the garage feels is a contributory factor to the noise. The cam followers, which are between the camshaft lobes and the tops of the valves are all quite worn. They are case hardened steel and the wear is through the case hardening on a number of them. They say this is not unusual on higher mileage engines. So, in addition to the estimated parts for the chain replacement they also recommend changing the set of followers – there are 32 of them.

Does anyone have a few on the additional work? Does it seem reasonable?


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[philw696]

Latest update on the timing chain replacement. The timing chains are certainly worn but there is also one other factor which the garage feels is a contributory factor to the noise. The cam followers, which are between the camshaft lobes and the tops of the valves are all quite worn. They are case hardened steel and the wear is through the case hardening on a number of them. They say this is not unusual on higher mileage engines. So, in addition to the estimated parts for the chain replacement they also recommend changing the set of followers – there are 32 of them.

Does anyone have a few on the additional work? Does it seem reasonable?


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Wow that's unlucky as they are hardy items are the cam lobes okay ?

 

[CatmanV2]

Surely if they're worn through the case hardening, it makes zero sense to re-use them. You know they will have significantly reduced lifespan.

C

 

[Gp79]

Wow that's unlucky as they are hardy items are the cam lobes okay ?

Be keen to see a photo, maybe stopped rotating but if heavily damaged then the cams would be worn. Surely not all 32 as not cheap

 

[Oishi]

As an old motorhead and engineer, I have long been enamored with good design. The 4200 engine is an absolute jewel.
Take a look at the camshafts for instance, they have counter balance weights between the cam lobes!

 

[omar_little]

Wow that's unlucky as they are hardy items are the cam lobes okay ?

Wow that's unlucky as they are hardy items are the cam lobes okay ?

I’m not sure. I’ll ask the question. Is it part of the Cam Follower kit?

The official Maserati parts are on back order, however they are the same as a Ferrari part and there is an aftermarket version so can supply a set of these quickly.


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[philw696]

I’m not sure. I’ll ask the question. Is it part of the Cam Follower kit?

The official Maserati parts are on back order, however they are the same as a Ferrari part and there is an aftermarket version so can supply a set of these quickly.


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The lobes are actually the part of the camshaft that push the hydraulic followers down so they want checking for wear too.