Advice please - "Christmas" lights

Alan Surrey

Member
Messages
1,036
I would welcome any first hand advice on this. 2008 4.2 ZF QPV.
Just to be clear, I fully expected this would happen one day, but have been driving around lately with that special smugness that comes only to drivers of a Maserati that has been fully functioning for months and months.
So it was a nasty shock.
Having driven 40 miles round the M25 yesterday in daylight at pretty much 70mph, spent half a day with my 94 year old mother in law (she's amazing. Uses social media. While I was there I fixed up WhatsApp to run on her iPad so she can get bigger photos than on her phone....) Then drove 40 miles back, this time in darkness, again at around 70 mph. Raining slightly, but nothing like the deluges we have had lately. Car completely faultless.
Unprecedented levels of smugness.
Neither of us fancied cooking, so stopped off as we entered the village to pick up a take away.
Everything good. Not a care in the world.
Came back to the car after 15 minutes with the take away.
AARRGHHHH.......
Dashboard showed "checking." That's odd. It always checks when I turn the ignition key, but it has never shown the word "checking." Then (drum roll please.)
All warning lights on. (queue the high-anxiety music) Even a little orange light up in the headlining that I had never noticed before. With my specs on, a secret-until-lit notice by it read "passenger air bag disabled." The dashboard showed the right and left indicators both flashing. The real indicators were not. "Go to main dealer" it showed. Certainly not.
Calm down man. Try the Microsoft approach.
Turn it off. Count to ten (good for my heart rate.) Breath deeply twice (and this.)
Turn the ignition key again.
AARRGHHH..
The same "Christmas" lights as before.
Count to twenty. Do it again.
A more resigned sort of AARRGHHH.
"I wonder if it will start" It did. Sounded sweet too (though smugness all gone now.) All dashboard lights on, except for the ones I wanted, of course. Every warning light lit, but speedometer, tacho and gear selector position indicator unlit, so no idea what the car is actually doing except by looking through the windscreen. And its a dark night.
Headlights? Yes. But nothing about lights showing on the dashboard. Same for main beam.
Indicators? Yes, But nothing showing on the dash.
Can I get it in gear? (hope so. Long way to push it home otherwise. (Downhill slightly though.)) Have to look down at the ZF selector lever to see. Yes. The little P light is now extinguished and D lit.
Will the car move. It did.
Power steering? Working.
Will it change gear? Yes it did. Let it do it itself Alan. Don't risk the paddles.
Corner coming up. What about the skyhooks? Well they seemed to work alright. Mind you, I was in no mood to exceed 30 mph.
Got home safely.
Today, took a risk. 5 miles to the pub for lunch with a friend. 5 miles back. Nothing wrong at all. Just as if nothing had happened. It would have been full smugness on my part, but for last night's alarming experience.
What is this car trying to do to me?

For the record, in the three years I have owned the car, it has been free from electrical gremlins except for:
The time when the battery it came with gave out, and
The time when the battery earth connector worked loose.
Both easily and successfully fixed.
Also for the record, it was Chinese lemon chicken with special rice. Good example of its kind too.

Can anyone offer advice or guidance with the aim of restoring my smugness?
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,332
Your lovely QP probably overheard some festive music and thought it would join in. Then realised that it's still November and was far too early for such behaviour or even thinking about getting the tree down from the loft, had a word with itself and corrected itself.
I think it just had a glitch. Something didn't quite successfully run up and the internal monitoring system threw up an error.

Please resume smug mode.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,776
Come on Alan you know what to do :)
Check the battery connections.
Check the battery voltage.
Give it a good charge recondition mode if you have a smart charger.
3 years is a good life on a complex car to be fair.
Glad the takeaway was okay.
 

Ebenezer

Member
Messages
4,583
+1 Alternator. That's when I got all sorts of Christmas lights too. However, my car then died once the battery had been exhausted. Keep an eye out for your battery indicator flashing. Mine flashed on only once I got over 3K revs.

Happens to all of us at some point unfortunately

Eb
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,776
As always check carefully with a multimeter to tell you exactly what's going on.
Or easier through diagnostic gear that will give you live data easily.
 

Alan Surrey

Member
Messages
1,036
Thanks guys. This kind of good advice is, as always, greatly appreciated.
To be fair (to myself) I do intend to check the battery and its connections as soon as the rain stops.
I'll let you know how I get on.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,716
As I read it altenator was circulating my brain like a lemon chicken. It does sound like a power issue so as above, start with the simple stuff…battery and connections.

Also a factor to consider, it’s rained a lot, do you have a sunroom, are either of the passenger floors wet?

Good luck in the hunt, here if you need us.
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,332
Ah. That'll be it. I must stop playing Slade.
Thanks Martin. I'm feeling better already. :)
Not until December

EnMQxWrXEAAh70_
 

Alan Surrey

Member
Messages
1,036
Wow.
Thank you everybody.
It's not stopped raining yet, so haven't got out with my multimeter.
Particular thanks to Matt for the offer of a check over in the dryness of the SportsItalia workshop. I think I'll be in touch on Monday.

Special thanks also to Martin for the Noddy Holder poster. I can hear it now.....
 

Alan Surrey

Member
Messages
1,036
Ah. Well how about that then?
A quick trip to SportItalia today - thank you Matt - The footwells and electronics & connectors therein were completely (and reassuringly) dry. The battery, only a year or so old, measured just fine. It turned out that there were hardly any error codes stored and none of them of any significance. But there was one, more or less incomprehensible but definitely to do with the CANbus. Perhaps when the car can't understand its own error codes, it lights every warning light its got, just in case. Well, that's what mine did anyway.
But the battery voltage on tickover measured 13.7V persistently, a bit high.
So........
Matt diagnoses dodgy alternator. On its way out.
So full marks for correct guess goes to @Oneball @Ebenezer and @philw696
Thank you everyone.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,716
Always a pleasure to see you Alan.

So to confirm altenator behaviour for anyone wishing to test theirs.

The unit has a voltage regulating diode pack on the back which is 99% of the time what goes.

A working one should go like this:

Connect a DC volt meter across the battery terminals

Start the car from cold

13.7v (or thereabouts) should be seen

As the car warms, the voltage required should reduce to circa 13.2v

What Alan’s is doing is nailed on 13.7v with no fluctuations which points to a failed/failing diode regulator.

This then manifest to an overcharging which confuses the sensitive electronics then ultimately a low charge which will illuminate the battery light on the dash.

In Alan’s case, and with all auto owners, the spikes send the auto trans into occasional wobble mode indicated by a canbus error (communication error) with the cars body and engine ecu’s.
 

Harvey_Tim

Member
Messages
218
Very useful info, thanks Matt. Out of interest can the diode pack be replaced independently or does this need a whole replacement alternator?
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,716
Very useful info, thanks Matt. Out of interest can the diode pack be replaced independently or does this need a whole replacement alternator?
We have Bosch rebuild them, all new parts. £595 plus vat parts and labour to SM members. It’s a plenum off job so it would be a false economy to only replace the diode pack. I have seen first hand (BennyD) what happens if you self repair. First (in France) it overcharged so much the battery superheated and the chassis of the battery was like jelly. He did it again and the altenator caught fire.

Put you off yet?
 

Harvey_Tim

Member
Messages
218
We have Bosch rebuild them, all new parts. £595 plus vat parts and labour to SM members. It’s a plenum off job so it would be a false economy to only replace the diode pack. I have seen first hand (BennyD) what happens if you self repair. First (in France) it overcharged so much the battery superheated and the chassis of the battery was like jelly. He did it again and the altenator caught fire.

Put you off yet?
Ha ha - don’t worry I wasn’t planning a self repair, as far as I can tell mine is still functioning ok … I was just interested to know if it required a new alternator or not when if it does happen.