BIturbo fuel pump issue?

[Needamaser]

Joys of older cars!

Car wont start unless a bit of throttle (2.8 fuel injected) and maybe "they all do that sir". Not an problem in itself.
However seem to have a recurring issue where after running for perhaps 10-15 minutes and stop then on restart engine spins over but won't fire. After 15-20 seconds she will fire up ok and run fine.
Now I have discovered that on going around a roundabout if I give it some throttle as I come off the roundabout the engine will either stutter or stop completely.
Will either pick up again ok or will start immediately on turn of the key.
Other than that car runs perfectly with no misfiring.
Pump? Relay? Wondered about bad connection but whilst that may explain "hot" starting wouldn't explain roundabout issue.
Is there an alternative to ES price on a pump of over £300?

TIA.
Stewart

 

[chad5k1]

I believe there is an alternative, although I don't have the details. You could search the yahoo biturbo group as I think it has been discussed on there.

 

[Needamaser]

Thanks for that Rich.
Didn't know it existed but will have a look.
Are ECU's a weak point on these cars?
Found an article on Maseratilife suggesting cleaning contacts and maybe a new earth as well.

 

[Needamaser]

Quick search suggests a bosch can be had for a lot less or an aftermarket one for £20 from USA plus delivery.
Thanks.
Electrical connection are a no cost "fix" so will do that anyway and see if it changes anything.
Car has done very little mileage in last number of years and standing unused wont have helped.

 

[chad5k1]

Nope, they do need using that is for sure.
I don't think the ECU's are weak, but the electrics are not great. I've heard of people using some kind of substance on the electrics that improves the connections - I've always just squirted WD40 myself, but probably not ideal. The earth straps do need to be good connections.

 

[Needamaser]

Cheers Rich,
Will invest in another can of electrical contact cleaner and some wet and dry to improve any connections.
Starting to wonder if either crud in the tank or perhaps in one of the fuel filters coming out the tank or maybe the fuel pump is the reason for cut out.
Might explain sudden change of direction coupled with no fuel if filter is partly blocked. Also sitting around wouldn't help that.
Pricing parts is interesting.
Fuel pump mega expensive but a new tank isn't too bad at £125. (assuming they are actually in stock.)

Going off at a tangent, do you happen to know if the A/C controls are back illuminated? Discovered first time used at night I had no idea if A/C was on or not. Ended up using light on my phone to see what was going on! For that matter are the switches for fuel flap and boot supposed to illuminate as well. Same problem when I needed to fill up on that journey. Certainly appreciate the joys of a more modern car now I have this! lol

Still love it though!

 

[chad5k1]

Cheers Rich,
Will invest in another can of electrical contact cleaner and some wet and dry to improve any connections.
Starting to wonder if either crud in the tank or perhaps in one of the fuel filters coming out the tank or maybe the fuel pump is the reason for cut out.
Might explain sudden change of direction coupled with no fuel if filter is partly blocked. Also sitting around wouldn't help that.
Pricing parts is interesting.
Fuel pump mega expensive but a new tank isn't too bad at £125. (assuming they are actually in stock.)

Going off at a tangent, do you happen to know if the A/C controls are back illuminated? Discovered first time used at night I had no idea if A/C was on or not. Ended up using light on my phone to see what was going on! For that matter are the switches for fuel flap and boot supposed to illuminate as well. Same problem when I needed to fill up on that journey. Certainly appreciate the joys of a more modern car now I have this! lol

Still love it though!

Yes, the part pricing is odd, lots of parts prices have gone up massively, often if the price looks good - it is probably not available anymore!

For the lights, I can't remember, we no longer have any buttons or heater controls!

 

[CatmanV2]

Cheers Rich,
Will invest in another can of electrical contact cleaner and some wet and dry to improve any connections!

Be cautious with the abrasives. You don't want metal powder getting in the works....

C

 

[Needamaser]

Thanks C.

 

[spkennyuk]

Joys of older cars!

Car wont start unless a bit of throttle (2.8 fuel injected) and maybe "they all do that sir". Not an problem in itself.
However seem to have a recurring issue where after running for perhaps 10-15 minutes and stop then on restart engine spins over but won't fire. After 15-20 seconds she will fire up ok and run fine.
Now I have discovered that on going around a roundabout if I give it some throttle as I come off the roundabout the engine will either stutter or stop completely.
Will either pick up again ok or will start immediately on turn of the key.
Other than that car runs perfectly with no misfiring.
Pump? Relay? Wondered about bad connection but whilst that may explain "hot" starting wouldn't explain roundabout issue.
Is there an alternative to ES price on a pump of over £300?

TIA.
Stewart

Had a similar issue on a ford years ago. Every time you turned a corner at anything other than a crawl the engine would be starved of fuel and stutter or cut out. On the ford it was turning left from memory.

Usual trouble shooting didnt work. I ended up taking it to my mechanic. It took him 2 days to figure out the cause. Corrosion and debris in the bottom of the tank which was slushing about when you turned a corner and blocking the fuel pick up. The pick up was on the right so when you turned left the fuel sediment was flung to the right choking the pump.

Tank off and cleaned and the problem was cured.

If you wanted to test the theory. Jack the car up on one side at the rear high enough that it leans over a bit. Start the car if it fires up change the jacking side and try again. If it doesnt start or is more difficult then it suggests something is blocking the fuel pickup in the tank when the fuel moves.

 

[Needamaser]

Had a similar issue on a ford years ago. Every time you turned a corner at anything other than a crawl the engine would be starved of fuel and stutter or cut out. On the ford it was turning left from memory.

Usual trouble shooting didnt work. I ended up taking it to my mechanic. It took him 2 days to figure out the cause. Corrosion and debris in the bottom of the tank which was slushing about when you turned a corner and blocking the fuel pick up. The pick up was on the right so when you turned left the fuel sediment was flung to the right choking the pump.

Tank of and cleaned and the problem was cured.

If you wanted to test the theory. Jack the car up on one side at the rear high enough that it leans over a bit. Start the car if it fires up change the jacking side and try again. If it doesnt start or is more difficult then it suggests something is blocking the fuel pickup in the tank when the fuel moves.

Good call.
I was thinking perhaps fuel filter possibly full of debris and sudden direction change causing it to move around but could be the tank.
Car has done little miles over the years which would not help.
Thanks again to all for suggestions.

 

[safrane]

My MK1 Golf had the same issue...not sure if the BT has an inline filter but it may give you some idea of the state of the fuel lines if you can examine it.

 

[chad5k1]

My MK1 Golf had the same issue...not sure if the BT has an inline filter but it may give you some idea of the state of the fuel lines if you can examine it.

I seem to remember the filter is in the tank and if you are going to the trouble of doing that, it is not much more work to go the entire way and clean out the tank or replace the pump.

 

[Needamaser]

From Eurospares diagram looks like 2 separate filters. One for the tank and other on the pump.
Slightly worried that if fuel flow is restricted pump ends up working overtime and knacker that prematurely.
May end up cleaning tank and replacing pump and filters just to be on safe side.

 

[general_piffle]

One of the things that Emblem discovered when working on my Ghibli was that the fuel lines in the tank had rotted, so they were all replaced. Bear in mind the car's only done around 22,000 miles but the lines were 20 years old. If they do rot over time perhaps this is exacerbating your problem?

 

[Needamaser]

One of the things that Emblem discovered when working on my Ghibli was that the fuel lines in the tank had rotted, so they were all replaced. Bear in mind the car's only done around 22,000 miles but the lines were 20 years old. If they do rot over time perhaps this is exacerbating your problem?

Makes we wonder if just getting a new tank and pump is the best option.
Mine is 25 years old and just over 40k so potentially same issue. Would guess it spent most of its time stored with little fuel in the tank as well.
Will try ES and see what they say about tank availability.
Thanks GF.

 

[highlander]

You've not had your troubles to seek with the old girl, time to let her go...........20 miles down the road
Hope you get her sorted soon mate, still not been introduced.

 

[spkennyuk]

Good call.
I was thinking perhaps fuel filter possibly full of debris and sudden direction change causing it to move around but could be the tank.
Car has done little miles over the years which would not help.
Thanks again to all for suggestions.

You could just put 2 wheels up on the kerb instead of jacking it up. If it is doing it when you go round round abouts then the drivers side wheels need to be lifted first. The downside of that is you will have to push the car back onto the flat if the pump pickup is getting clogged by debris in the tank.

If that proves to be the case and the tank is in good condition then you could just steam clean it and refit.