brakes stopped working - 3200 - no idea why...

[bossemaserati]

good evening everyone!

today i wanted to check the rear brake discs of my 3200
they were still fine and in good condition. at one point i also looked at the brake pads which looked ok as well. i pushed them away from the brake discs to have a proper look at them. all was good at that point.

then the shock came when i lowered the car again and all of a sudden the front right and the rear left brakes stopped working!
i was all of sudden able to push the pedal all the way to the bottom.

i then thought that air must have gotten into the system somehow, and then tried to bleed the system.

i did not manage to build up any pressure in the system. the brake pedal can still be pushed down all the way.
in addition there was no visible leak of any brake fluid on the floor. and the brake fluid in the brake fluid tank did not show any difference.

did anyone have the same problem? could the brake pump be at fault? was it my fault that i pushed the brake pads inwards?

any advice would be much appreciated!!

thank you!!! bosse

 

[safrane]

Has there been any leeks from the reservoir? as pushing the pads back could force the fluid to travel back to the unit which may leek into the engine bay.

 

[bossemaserati]

Has there been any leeks from the reservoir? as pushing the pads back could force the fluid to travel back to the unit which may leek into the engine bay.

hi safrane - not that i could see... i had a good look around the reservoir but it was dry....

 

[safrane]

Have you started the engine to build a vacuum in the master cylinder?

 

[CatmanV2]

...and pumped the pedal to push the pads back to the disc....

C

 

[jluis]

When you tried to bleed the system, did you do it on all 4 wheels or just the wheel you had been working?
Was there oil coming out of the bleed valves when the pedal was pushed?

Do you have the ABS light on the dashboard turning on permanently?
Your description seems to point to the ABS unit permanently opening a valve but I never heard of this happening.

 

[bossemaserati]

...and pumped the pedal to push the pads back to the disc....

C

Hi C and safrane -

yes tried running the engine for a few minutes... without success... but i did not manage to built up enough internal hydraulic pressure in the first place so it was unlikely that this would work..

When you tried to bleed the system, did you do it on all 4 wheels or just the wheel you had been working?
Was there oil coming out of the bleed valves when the pedal was pushed?

Do you have the ABS light on the dashboard turning on permanently?
Your description seems to point to the ABS unit permanently opening a valve but I never heard of this happening.

Hi jluis,

i only tried the brakes in question (rear left and front right), and did not manage to built up any pressure whatsoever. should this make a difference doing the other brakes? even if the other brakes appear to work?

there was very little (hardly any) brake fluid out of the system..

there is no error light on the dashboard, so also no ABS light, but they are all working when turning the ignition on.

i don't know what to try next..

any further advice would be much appreciated! thank you!!!

 

[jluis]

The only thing I can think of is a failed master cylinder but that seems unlikely just by pushing back the pads.

 

[jluis]

This seems consistent with your problem
http://www.safebraking.com/brake-tech-brakes-pull-due-to-solenoids-stuck-open/

Pushing back the pads might have forced contaminants to the ABS valves.
If you have access to an SD2 or equivalent you can cycle the valves.

 

[bossemaserati]

The only thing I can think of is a failed master cylinder but that seems unlikely just by pushing back the pads.

my thoughts as well actually.... did you ever work on the master cylinder? anything to look out for when checking it? thanks again - bosse

 

[jluis]

my thoughts as well actually.... did you ever work on the master cylinder? anything to look out for when checking it? thanks again - bosse

Never in the 3200 but I had an older car that the cylinder failed, however they don't usualy just fail immediately. You notice as it gets progressively spongier.

I think your best bet is the ABS valves getting contaminated when you pushed back the fluid and got stuck open.

The ABS being such a critical part of the car safety, you really should have it checked by a professional with the right tools.

 

[bossemaserati]

Never in the 3200 but I had an older car that the cylinder failed, however they don't usualy just fail immediately. You notice as it gets progressively spongier.

I think your best bet is the ABS valves getting contaminated when you pushed back the fluid and got stuck open.

The ABS being such a critical part of the car safety, you really should have it checked by a professional with the right tools.

you are right. will get it checked out. thank you for your help!

 

[bossemaserati]

actually - how do you air bleed the system correctly? i had some discussion with a friend of mine, who said that an abs system should air bleed itself? is that correct? thank you!!

 

[jluis]

actually - how do you air bleed the system correctly? i had some discussion with a friend of mine, who said that an abs system should air bleed itself? is that correct? thank you!!

That is incorrect, an ABS system does not autobleed by itself (at least not the entire circuit).
You bleed the same way as a conventional car without ABS, the catch is that without a tool to connect to the OBD port (or directly to the ABS unit on older cars) to cycle the valves you cannot flush the small amount of oil contained in the interior of the ABS pump.
This is normally not a problem as this oil will be cycled trough the system the next time the ABS has to modulate the brake.

 

[bossemaserati]

That is incorrect, an ABS system does not autobleed by itself (at least not the entire circuit).
You bleed the same way as a conventional car without ABS, the catch is that without a tool to connect to the OBD port (or directly to the ABS unit on older cars) to cycle the valves you cannot flush the small amount of oil contained in the interior of the ABS pump.
This is normally not a problem as this oil will be cycled trough the system the next time the ABS has to modulate the brake.

that makes sense. i actually think that no parts are broken (at least i hope so) but that i don't manage to bleed the system properly. i just found the following in the repair handbook:



so i guess if normal bleeding does not work then an SD2 needs to do the work for you! i wish an SD2 was cheaper than it is!!

 

[alfatwo]

You can open all the internal valves on the ABS pump with the SD2 examiner and bleed the system correctly
I'm not sure this will solve your problem though...

Dave

 

[CatmanV2]

I wonder if your master cylinder seals have flipped back when it was pushed back. Had this on the 4200 lat year. Settled down eventually. Not sure if yours is worse though

C

 

[Mr.Cambio]

I had a similar issue on the 4200 as i changes the fluid. The brake pump/servo failed.

I have a brand new spare brake cylinder for sale. If you wish, drop me a line.

 

[dunnah01]

As earlier post have you pushed pedal enough times to set pads on disc- usually 4 or 5 pushes

 

[bossemaserati]

thank you everyone for the help! yesterday i was about to have a closer look at the master cylinder and here is what i discovered:

basically the previous owner of my car had the good intention to replace a lot of rubber tubing and hoses. some of them must have been quite old and brittle.
as part of this refurbishment he also changed the two tubes that lead from the braking fluid tank to the master cylinder.

the two tubes are lying one on top of each other, and the bottom one was essentially squashed like a garden hose!
there was no way of seeing the fault, only by feeling the tube.

i then released the pressure, put a strengthening part in the bend of the tubing, then air bled the entire system in the standard way and as a result have a completely new braking sensation!

essentially since i bought the car it was running only on 1 braking circuit rather then the intended 2!

anyway - very happy to have solved that mystery!!

thank you again everyone for your help!!

bosse

PS i have been looking for a full list of maserati error codes... can anyone point me into the right direction?