Building a new garage - any building/planning experts?

[MAF260]

I've been excitedly researching having a new double garage built at my house. I incorrectly believed that I'd be able to build it under Permitted Development - no more than 30 square metres floor area and no more than 4 metres in height. There are a few companies out there making oak-framed garages which would fit the bill perfectly. The plan was to build the garage at the front of my house - close to the front boundary with the road (within specified limits) and up to the boundary with the house next door. My house sits in just under half an acre and is in a road of large, detached houses.
I hadn't realised that you cannot build forward of the house within Permitted Development rules. I spoke with my local planners today to learn this. They said that I'd need to submit a planning application, but that they would almost certainly refuse permission based on the visual impact the garage would have. I live at the end of a large cul-de-sac, there is only one house after mine before the end of the road. No other houses in the road have built in the front garden space, so there is no precedent. The planner also said that they would have to consider any impact on neighbouring houses and blocked light etc.

I appreciate it's probably quite difficult to visualise all of this, but wonder if anyone has any thoughts/views/expertise on how I might achieve what I want. I'm not one to take "no" for an answer and don't like bureaucratic, small-minded council Hitlers telling me what I can do within my own property! I'm also aware I may have an attitude problem with 'authority'!!

 

[BennyD]

.....and, IIRC, with frenchmen making a lot of noise after lights out/curfew. Oh, and with fat ***** driving Datsuns!

 

[mjheathcote]

It can be frustrating.
Our previous house was a three storey grade 2 listed weavers cottage, also in a conservation area.
To the rear/side we unusually for the area had a bit of land, that had a old single prefab concrete garage.
That of course had to go, and in its place we built a 29.9 square meter garage, out of natural stone with repro slate roof.
Being less than 30 square meters we did not need building control, but we did have to satisfy full planing/listed building/conservation area approval.
It can be done!

Edit: found a picture of 10 years ago about a year after it was built. It was like a wedge shape, going to full width at the back if you look at the roof line. Could get 3 cars inside, two side by side at the rear and one at the front! Nicely shows the cars at the time, Stag still have, Alfa 146ti company car at the time, and my S1 111s Elise that was sold for the Maser a couple of years ago.

 

[MAF260]

.....and, IIRC, with frenchmen making a lot of noise after lights out/curfew. Oh, and with fat ***** driving Datsuns!

You've got me thinking now. The list really could go on....

 

[BennyD]

A novel use of the space available. Respect!

 

[BennyD]

You've got me thinking now. The list really could go on....

......and on, and on, and on. Much like my wife.

 

[mjheathcote]

A novel use of the space available. Respect!

I did take it too the max!
Had to also have a massive reinforced raft as perched on the hill side.
When finished I fitted a mezzanine floor inside with plenty of roof space using I beams instead of the silly cross lattice work that is usually used.
Only problem was getting cars in and out, through the single garage door, had to move two cars if parked at the back and one on the drive. Still, having off road parking and garaging for three with a 200 year old cottage is extremely rare, and when we decided to sell we sold the house immediately to a fellow car enthusiast without it going on the open market. One has to get ones priorities right!

 

[BennyD]

I agree. When we viewed the house we are in, it had to have a decent garage. It's 20' x 20' and I've since put an 8' x 20' workshop extension on the back. The house we hope to build will, hopefully, have a triple with a 2 post lift in the middle bay. Priorities!

 

[outrun]

I did a 2600sqft barn conversion for my wife on the understanding that I could have a triple garage. It was the most expensive garage of all time!

 

[BennyD]

Mine won't be cheap either! She's got her heart set on a bespoke kitchen with granite etc, etc. She thinks it's fair if I get a nice garage. Women eh, you can't live with them and you can't shoot them legally!

 

[MAF260]

....Our previous house was a three storey grade 2 listed weavers cottage, also in a conservation area.
To the rear/side we unusually for the area had a bit of land, that had a old single prefab concrete garage.
That of course had to go, and in its place we built a 29.9 square meter garage, out of natural stone with repro slate roof.
Being less than 30 square meters we did not need building control, but we did have to satisfy full planing/listed building/conservation area approval.
It can be done!.....

Sounds like the old garage you replaced was key in this. The area in front of my house is either lawn or Tarmac driveway. I think I shall put some sketches/images together and go to meet the planners. At least I can then discuss the most likely options without wasting time and money on plans that won't ever be approved.

 

[dem maser]

I have no idea who your council is but Enfield are relaxed.....

Have seen so many different things going on, even my house comes with permission to build on 2 storeys and its not detached!!

I know here, as long as your on your land and can show that your not taking light away from anyone, you will get it

 

[maverick]

If I was you go and see the planners with scaled drawings , plans and side elevations these don't have to be professional just to scale some good photos of all views , wide shots etc , don't take you lap top in and show them on that , these people like hard copies ( something you can leave with them ) and put your case forward . But to be ornest in my limited exsperance you will not get permission to build in the front . The architect I use all ways tells me if you want it to go though first time with out any issue keep with in the planning and don't push any bouderies so to speek other wise it will cost you time and money . Ok builden a garage there probably no time restraint so you may be prepared to go though the process but if your architect is any good hill would advise you not to go that route unless he's trying to get this years holiday payed by you ! As the song says " i thought the law and the law won" but good luck with it anyway

 

[Team GCR]

It might be worth talking to the supplier of the garage you intend to buy. I am putting up a *ahem* moderate sized wood framed garage as part of various work at my house. I went along to Warwick Buildings who will be supplying it and they were able to guide me through what I could get away with and where. Also might be worth geting someone with a fresh perspective to have a look at your property, I was seriously considering moving to someone with more land for garages etc.,.. then a friend came round and suggested putting the garages somewhere I wuld never have considered. I think having lived here 18 years I could, almost literally, not see the wood for the trees!

 

[rossyl]

Mark - have a look to see if there is a difference dependent on the structure that you use, i.e. brick vs wood.

For example, I know that there is a "get out" for fully wooden structures in back gardens, that are classified as "sheds". They don't require planning. These can be built right on the boundary, have electricity, heating etc. I don't think they require any Building Control either. However, if you were to use brickwork then you would not be allowed to build that same building with the same dimensions.

I may be completely wrong, but I think it is worth investigating if you put up a completely wooden structure if that falls within planning laws.

 

[rossyl]

Agh...just answered my own theory...

Rules governing outbuildings apply to sheds...

Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:
No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings/

 

[MAF260]

Some good pointers and thoughts, thanks all. The fundamental issue is that I want to build in front of the house. Not an issue in itself, it will simply require planning permission instead of being allowed under permitted development. The real issue is that the planners in my area are very strict and ensure that nothing out of place is allowed. Their initial view is that the garage would change the visual aspect of the road as all front gardens are open, bordered by a small hedge or low wall - no high walls and gates allowed here under an old covenant. There is no precendent in the road - I looked this morning and no other house has a building or garage that comes forward of the front wall of any property, either attached or detached. I think I'm going to struggle.
Robin - I don't think I have an alternative to building what I want where I want it, but will definitely take your idea and maybe have an architect come and take a look.

Any other thoughts and ideas welcome. I'm feeling very deflated after the initial excitement and Mrs MAF's approval.

 

[2b1ask1]

Mark, for what it's worth, go for the long game with the planners, apply first time with an outrageous proposal, expect it to get stuffed, return every few weeks with a new one and tweak it with things like burying it into the slope, adding a grass roof and all timber above ground etc.

Never give up, ever! Planners are not top of my Christmas list...

 

[hodroyd]

Planners everywhere use nonsense as one of their guidelines and you have to be prepared for that. It looks like your main issue is trying to build forward of the main structure line in the road and it could possibly end up with you challenging that, which could be long winded. Could you ask any of the other house owners if they had considered building in front of their house..?? If a few have and would like to, a block application may have more weight and a better chance..??

 

[zagatoes30]

I was of always of the understanding that building in front of the existing building line is almost always a no, no. Friends of ours have just overturned this view by extending there house forward about 1.5m. The architect they used proved that as both the neighbouring houses were this far forward already adding the extension had not detriment to the overall building line of the houses when seen together.

I do still think the permission you need is going to be hard to get unless you can come up with a compelling argument to treat your build different from the perceived norm. Good luck though as getting one over on the planners is a worthwhile objective (jumped up little spoilsports they are)