Ghibli F160 Engine Chain Guide Failure - Rare

[CatmanV2]

Good watch.

TLNW
Looks like, to me, that the material inserts in the timing guides breaks up, then clogs the oil pick up. That would result in drastic oil pressure loss which seems to be the reported experience. *Hopefully* regular maintenance and some mechanical sympathy (this one was slapping its chains against the valve covers which I can't imagine you wouldn't hear) will mitigate against this, but would love to hear from @conearo and the other experts.

Cheers

C

 

[Phil H]

A visitor to the forum might see the thread title and assume that Ghibli (F160) engine failure is a common occurrence, and I don't think that's the case. The F160 has been used for 10 years on a range of platforms, and if there really was a problem I think it would be pretty well publicised by now.

 

[MrMickS]

I'm guessing engine maintenance, replacing the timing chains, would detect this issue. We have no knowledge about whether this was serviced at the recommended intervals or not. USAians have a tendency to do regular oil changes, with oil change shops being a thing, and complaining about the cost of dealer services from reading some of the international postings.

I never had an issue with the engine in mine and drove > 50k miles. I don't remember reading about a lot of failures either.

 

[CatmanV2]

It's something of a hot topic in Leftpondia. They all expect them to go bang in about 10 minutes....

Oh and timing chains are not listed in the service guide.

C

 

[CatmanV2]

A visitor to the forum might see the thread title and assume that Ghibli (F160) engine failure is a common occurrence, and I don't think that's the case. The F160 has been used for 10 years on a range of platforms, and if there really was a problem I think it would be pretty well publicised by now.

Hmm, fair call. I can't edit the title. Perhaps @Zep would oblige?
There's a perception that these early Ghiblis *do* (and there's a fair few documented cases on the Leftpondian forum). With much of the usual speculation as to why it happens (also fueld by the change in oil spec). This seems a good explanation of the reported experience, was my thought.

C

 

[Phil H]

It's something of a hot topic in Leftpondia. They all expect them to go bang in about 10 minutes....

C

But they all drive on the wrong side of the road - that's asking for trouble as the flux capacitor reverses its polarity!

 

[CJ Romeo]

In general, the plastic guides break once they are old, heat cycled AND the tensioner can no longer take up the slack and the chain slaps against the plastic.

This can either be a dud chain, tensioner, badly made guides or a simple lack of oil maintenance causing the chain to stretch.

it could be of course that these early engines needed revised components that we will never hear about to prevent this, whether that’s chains, guides or tensioners.

I suspect this issue with the chain contacting the cam covers will be easily seen with an infra red camera without disassembling anything.

 

[CatmanV2]

In general, the plastic guides break once they are old, heat cycled AND the tensioner can no longer take up the slack and the chain slaps against the plastic.

This can either be a dud chain, tensioner, badly made guides or a simple lack of oil maintenance causing the chain to stretch.

it could be of course that these early engines needed revised components that we will never hear about to prevent this, whether that’s chains, guides or tensioners.

I suspect this issue with the chain contacting the cam covers will be easily seen with an infra red camera without disassembling anything.

Oh that's a good shout. I wonder if anyone has such a camera I can use

C

 

[Zep]

Hmm, fair call. I can't edit the title. Perhaps @Zep would oblige?


C

Will that do?

 

[CatmanV2]

Will that do?

Perfect!

C

 

[conaero]

Rule of thumb for chain servicing is you change them when they get noisy. Personally 100k miles should be a guide to do it.

There has been some mechs harping on about this since the sunsetting of the Cambelt system and that chains will be the death of many engines.

I feel they have a point

 

[CatmanV2]

I remember I had to have them done on my old Alfa twin cam but that was many moons past

C

 

[hashluck]

Timing chain guides (and tensioners) are a big issue on many an engine, but you should be well aware of an issue prior to a catastrophic failure. I am sure many drivers put their head in the sand. On BMWs the chain can slip but the engine will shut down. Clever. As ever regular servicing and maintenance and driving with mechanical sympathy will pay you back.

 

[conaero]

We see a lot of guide failures on our beloved 4.2/4.7 Mas V8’s. It’s not stripping the guide coating as per that vid but the lower right guide snaps off at the bottom but thankfully sits in the bottom of the timing case.

It presents the same as the variator failure as a rattle on startup, so if you have a mid/late 2009 on GT/QP with the variator mod and it rattles on startup….get it in quick

 

[CatmanV2]

Interesting (to me) comparison by the same guy with the Chrylser engine:

C

 

[CJ Romeo]

So it’s the same shape externally and has the same rockers and oil pump. That’s less similarity than a Nissan VRH to a McLaren.

 

[CatmanV2]

So it’s the same shape externally and has the same rockers and oil pump. That’s less similarity than a Nissan VRH to a McLaren.

Yeah, there's not a whole load of interchangeability. But that engine was a mess

C