Parisien
Moderator
- Messages
- 34,927
....more than likely along with the 5 million quid building investment......staff of 20.....all factory trained.......everyday running costs......holding £3 millions quids worth of car stock......etc....
P
Lancasters service offer
- Thread starter vulcan1208
- Start date
....more than likely along with the 5 million quid building investment......staff of 20.....all factory trained.......everyday running costs......holding £3 millions quids worth of car stock......etc....
P
Emtee
New Member
- Messages
- 8,446
Take a word of advice from someone that knows........ Do NOT have an oil flush unless you are CERTAIN that an oil flush has been carried out at all prior services. If the dealer / indi recommends one (I very much doubt an indi would), get them to put in writing that they will take responsibility for all oil system related failures thereafter and then see if they still recommend one.
vulcan1208
Member
- Messages
- 172
In all of my time owning a 3200 the service cost has always been plus fluids and any other items used. I wouldn't say that Lancasters would give a bad service, far from it and if had not been using Grimaldi's for the past few years then I would have no qualms about using Lancasters. It doesn't matter where you go it will always be expensive, I have just taken what I thought was a well sorted 3200 (always maintained regardless of expense) in for an MOT and it ended up costing nearly £4k, more than a quarter of what the car is actually worth !!!
hodroyd
Member
- Messages
- 14,150
From experience most dealers have a price list and try to get as much on the invoice as possible, I have known dealers just charge for anything and definitely not do the work. How on earth would anybody know if an oil/fuel flush had been done or not? It's just another £50. Bull Manure.
The issue you have is that with many service items it is hard to check for evidence of work. There will be a few cases of work having not been carried out which gets us all nervous.
Personally, my 3200GT was only serviced by main dealers (owned from two years old to four) but I used an independent for my 4200GT (owned from four to six years) but it already had been to an independent before I bought it. With my Granturismo it will be going to a main dealer for it's first five years at least as these cars are now in a much higher price point where buyers will expect that up to five years old IMHO. I also must confess that the convenience of getting my car collected on a low loader, being provided with a nice loan car and my car driving 150 less miles (round trip to dealer) appeals.
Personally, my 3200GT was only serviced by main dealers (owned from two years old to four) but I used an independent for my 4200GT (owned from four to six years) but it already had been to an independent before I bought it. With my Granturismo it will be going to a main dealer for it's first five years at least as these cars are now in a much higher price point where buyers will expect that up to five years old IMHO. I also must confess that the convenience of getting my car collected on a low loader, being provided with a nice loan car and my car driving 150 less miles (round trip to dealer) appeals.
hodroyd
Member
- Messages
- 14,150
I suppose the only way to be sure is to check everything you can that states it has been changed and hope for the best on the rest. If something fails you can always go back to the dealer and get them to foot the bill for putting it right, should be the same for indies as well.
vulcan1208
Member
- Messages
- 172
If you use a main dealer why would the technician ( one of many in the workshop ) want to short change anyone on the items changed / work done, he gets nothing out of it personally, the next question would then be why would the workshop manager ask technicians to falsify job sheets he again gets nothing out of it, my opinion is that it does not happen, there may be an unintentional oversight from time to time where something gets missed but I can't see a prestige main dealer (whoever they are ) risking a multi million pound business just to make a few hundred pounds here and there. With regard to specialists if they have a good long standing reputation why would they also risk losing that reputation and probably their livelihood just to make a bit extra especially when the type of customers they deal with are a lot more interested in what was done to their car and a lot more vocal on these forums if something is done wrong. If people are happier with a specialist then thats their choice but I am pretty sure that you would not get intentionally ripped off by a main dealer either, they may not fit reconditioned or modified parts (contactless TB's etc.) but that is just the way main dealers work, it's nothing sinister.
The internet is a wonderful way of small things being blown out of all proportion as, by and large, people have a greater propensity to complain rather than compliment on forums (SM is much nicer place than most forums).
In the maintenance of three Maseratis over the years I have not had a bad experience of Graypaul Edinburgh, MP Supercars, Maranello Egham and Meridien Modena. The latter two had a style of selling which I found aggressive but not everyone would agree. The salesman at Graypaul Edinburgh was very patient as it took me a year to sign the order form as I looked around for second hand cars but could not find what I wanted used.
In the maintenance of three Maseratis over the years I have not had a bad experience of Graypaul Edinburgh, MP Supercars, Maranello Egham and Meridien Modena. The latter two had a style of selling which I found aggressive but not everyone would agree. The salesman at Graypaul Edinburgh was very patient as it took me a year to sign the order form as I looked around for second hand cars but could not find what I wanted used.
Andrea
New Member
- Messages
- 1,068
Good thread and an interesting read. There are many reasons why we individually choose main dealer or specialist and it is each to their own, the decision maybe made on value of car, personal budget, recommendation, relationship, to personal experience of how we feel on speaking to the man with the know - on how to .......
Perhaps perception is another why we rule out other avenues, or as somebody commented one bad experience is far more expected to be posted than endless good experiences by nature.
From experience with our members one thing that gets flagged from time to time, are 'health checks' carried out by both Franchise and Specialists.
Why do they find work? One that once again is one person's marmite to another. Personally, if i paid to have a service carried out on my car by a service provider, i would want and expect a health check ran, not just at MOT, for one they are far more in the know to see what they are looking at than me, for reasons i may not be mechanically minded or that it's a part you cannot reach until revealed. A health check should be a working document if you like, in that a good provider will flag up to you, any recalls that are outstanding, an aproximate life span of any problems found, ie tyres - how much wear, a job they can see doing, if labour makes sense to do now as on the 'operating table' and would cause hours of extra labour going back in at a later date, then it is a good call to make and a decision to be made. From a dealer point of view if they didn't flag things up, how would you feel if the particular item was a safety issue and was never mentioned for fear of loosing a customer for cost implications or worse, or if that problem was not flagged up and caused you even greater expense in the end?
A health check, will allow you to budget, most things do not need doing immediately, merely give you heads up, i get it with my own car and i do the usual 'oh... that's good news..how much will that be?' But there is no getting away from it, cars need maintenance and we encourage our partners to keep you in the know and any good provider will do whatever they can to advise and help, they want to keep our custom and build relationships, i have the good fortune of speaking with many of the providers for your cars and believe it or not - it is their mission. This is obviously just my opinion but one i hope you will see from the other side of the table.... but at the same time I'm an owner/customer too.
Perhaps perception is another why we rule out other avenues, or as somebody commented one bad experience is far more expected to be posted than endless good experiences by nature.
From experience with our members one thing that gets flagged from time to time, are 'health checks' carried out by both Franchise and Specialists.
Why do they find work? One that once again is one person's marmite to another. Personally, if i paid to have a service carried out on my car by a service provider, i would want and expect a health check ran, not just at MOT, for one they are far more in the know to see what they are looking at than me, for reasons i may not be mechanically minded or that it's a part you cannot reach until revealed. A health check should be a working document if you like, in that a good provider will flag up to you, any recalls that are outstanding, an aproximate life span of any problems found, ie tyres - how much wear, a job they can see doing, if labour makes sense to do now as on the 'operating table' and would cause hours of extra labour going back in at a later date, then it is a good call to make and a decision to be made. From a dealer point of view if they didn't flag things up, how would you feel if the particular item was a safety issue and was never mentioned for fear of loosing a customer for cost implications or worse, or if that problem was not flagged up and caused you even greater expense in the end?
A health check, will allow you to budget, most things do not need doing immediately, merely give you heads up, i get it with my own car and i do the usual 'oh... that's good news..how much will that be?' But there is no getting away from it, cars need maintenance and we encourage our partners to keep you in the know and any good provider will do whatever they can to advise and help, they want to keep our custom and build relationships, i have the good fortune of speaking with many of the providers for your cars and believe it or not - it is their mission. This is obviously just my opinion but one i hope you will see from the other side of the table.... but at the same time I'm an owner/customer too.
Last edited:
hodroyd
Member
- Messages
- 14,150
Well put Andrea and everybody else. I think once bitten twice shy is an apt saying. With most things nowadays that need professional attention, on the first occassion I watch carefully, if everything is OK and reasonable I will give that company a second chance and so on. Cars and dealers are no different. If it means asking for all the old parts that have supposedly been changed, just to satisfy yourself, then so be it, although they could have come off any other car and you maybe would not know that. Once you find a dealer, or Indie, that does what it says on the tin and at the right price, keep going back and be thankfull.
Emtee
New Member
- Messages
- 8,446
I do think the sands have shifted somewhat. Time was when a dealer was only interested in shifting stock and the service garage somewhere out back was an inconvenient consequence.
As posted by Andrea in another thread, the servicing and maintenance of these premium motor cars has evolved to become a very good way of engendering loyalty. The Ferrari Tech' award is testament to this, and that isn't a cheap program to run. Put along side that the complexity of the cars, the ever finer engineering tolerances and the requirement to have especially trained servicing staff and you arrive at where we are now. Expensive, undoubtedly yes, but cutting corners?.. well the Ferrari 7 year warranty would certainly suggest no.
So where does the Ind' fit in?.... For me a real knowledge of the older models and their foibles that only come to light after the warranties run out.
Yes they're generally cheeper, but so are their overheads so they should be.
I think the difference now is simply dictated by the age of the car. If new and therefore expensive and under warranty, then the dealer is the way to go, but for the older cars I do think the indi still wins.
They both play to their strengths.. Ask an indi how the FF works and then ask the dealer, well I suspect I know where you'll receive the more knowledgeable answer, but conversely ask the dealer how the 3200 works............
As posted by Andrea in another thread, the servicing and maintenance of these premium motor cars has evolved to become a very good way of engendering loyalty. The Ferrari Tech' award is testament to this, and that isn't a cheap program to run. Put along side that the complexity of the cars, the ever finer engineering tolerances and the requirement to have especially trained servicing staff and you arrive at where we are now. Expensive, undoubtedly yes, but cutting corners?.. well the Ferrari 7 year warranty would certainly suggest no.
So where does the Ind' fit in?.... For me a real knowledge of the older models and their foibles that only come to light after the warranties run out.
Yes they're generally cheeper, but so are their overheads so they should be.
I think the difference now is simply dictated by the age of the car. If new and therefore expensive and under warranty, then the dealer is the way to go, but for the older cars I do think the indi still wins.
They both play to their strengths.. Ask an indi how the FF works and then ask the dealer, well I suspect I know where you'll receive the more knowledgeable answer, but conversely ask the dealer how the 3200 works............
hodroyd
Member
- Messages
- 14,150
Hi Miles,
I agree with a great deal of what everyone says about this, including yourself. My only concern ever is not to get ripped off, it would really infuriate me. I remember years ago I went in to the actual workshop of a main dealer, who was servicing a prestige motor of mine. They had several service bays and it was immediately obvious to me, that 80% of the so called highly trained technicians, were teenagers still wet behind the ears. I questioned the service manager about this and he ffumbled around suggesting that all the work was checked by fully qualified staff. It may well have been, but the work was actually done by what I saw as amatuers and I moved my servicing to another dealer. Everybody has to learn, but ideally not on my car unless they are assisting a fully trained technician.
Cheers
Robert
I agree with a great deal of what everyone says about this, including yourself. My only concern ever is not to get ripped off, it would really infuriate me. I remember years ago I went in to the actual workshop of a main dealer, who was servicing a prestige motor of mine. They had several service bays and it was immediately obvious to me, that 80% of the so called highly trained technicians, were teenagers still wet behind the ears. I questioned the service manager about this and he ffumbled around suggesting that all the work was checked by fully qualified staff. It may well have been, but the work was actually done by what I saw as amatuers and I moved my servicing to another dealer. Everybody has to learn, but ideally not on my car unless they are assisting a fully trained technician.
Cheers
Robert
Emtee
New Member
- Messages
- 8,446
I can understand your concern Robert, and don't I want to give the impression that everything in the world of car servicing is hunky-dory, as it isn't. I've had some very dubious experiences with Ford dealerships along the way with the wife's motor, so I know the corners are still being cut on occasion. I guess my point is in relation to Ferrari / Maserati dealers and indi's specifically.
It would be great to get a Ferrari / Maserati service manager to check in and give an explanation of the apprenticeship program, and their working methods in the service department, as I really don't think there's any point in them cutting corners with the newer / current cars. Yes you pay a lot of money for the pleasure, but that's where the expertise is.
Where the dealers perhaps fall short, and where the indi's come into their own, is a practical and working knowledge of the older models. The dealers simply don't see enough of them to know their long term foibles, whereas the indi's do.
Parisien
Moderator
- Messages
- 34,927
Miles, there have been several instances, and I can only assume honest reporting by Maserati owners of the airfilter being pulled out of it container ...not having been change for 3/4/5 yrs......all MD type servicing etc.
I myself went in for a bit of work at my MD to be told the rear suspension arm's tie rods were shot ( assuming they'd replace same for £1000 plus labour)......both my usual mechanic and our very stringent government run MOT centre said they were fine..........anecdotal evidence is out there.......lots of it.
I have no doubt all sorts of corners are cut...in all types of garages....but would assume most are honest and decent.
P
I myself went in for a bit of work at my MD to be told the rear suspension arm's tie rods were shot ( assuming they'd replace same for £1000 plus labour)......both my usual mechanic and our very stringent government run MOT centre said they were fine..........anecdotal evidence is out there.......lots of it.
I have no doubt all sorts of corners are cut...in all types of garages....but would assume most are honest and decent.
P
Emtee
New Member
- Messages
- 8,446
Hi P, yes I've seen and read many as well, though I do run wary of anecdotal evidence, as it's inevitably vulnerable.
As for your own experience with the rear suspension arm tie rods, Which MD and when? Recently? I'd be interested to know the details and if you reported your later findings back to that MD. As per my posts previously, I'm no defender of the MD's when it comes to the older models, and if you've experienced incorrect and potentially costly advice in relation to the service they purport to offer, then they should be named and shamed.