Longtube manifolds for GranTurismo (and QPV)

BillyBob · Dec 22, 2021

Zep said:
Yes. Did you buy it?!

It was an 8 hour return trip for me, and it needed seeing in person. I did a video walkaround, but couldn't get a clear view of the floor / seat belt anchorages. Decided to pass in the end, but if he gets messed around by the winning bidder, then I'll probably go for it.

Zep · Dec 22, 2021

BillyBob said:
It was an 8 hour return trip for me, and it needed seeing in person. I did a video walkaround, but couldn't get a clear view of the floor / seat belt anchorages. Decided to pass in the end, but if he gets messed around by the winning bidder, then I'll probably go for it.

Agreed, I was a bit nervous of the MOT fail points and I could see some clag on the inner wings in the pics. I was going to swoop if it got relisted! Nevermind!

Gazcw · Dec 22, 2021

Felonious Crud said:
If you did buy it, you have allowed Zep to become the test-mule for those gorgeous manifolds on a Strad.

God knows his car needs a bit more get up and go so, hopefully, these will let him hold his head high when in company.

Well it might help him get on the ferry.

Felonious Crud · Dec 22, 2021

Gazcw said:
Well it might help him get on the ferry.

It's not too soon any more, right?

Gazcw · Dec 22, 2021

Felonious Crud said:
It's not too soon any more, right?

Surely not.

rs48635 · Dec 31, 2021

A.S. Motorsport said:
That said intake air, this is already a highly effective ram cold air intake from factory on 4.7S (different airbox vs 4.2 and 4.7 QP)

what you say willis?
Can the 4.7s intake retro-fit my 4.2 dry sump QP?

A.S. Motorsport · Dec 31, 2021

rs48635 said:
what you say willis?
Can the 4.7s intake retro-fit my 4.2 dry sump QP?

Air box on a drysump QP is totally different (90 degree's tilted) the cold intake ducts are present there the feed of cold air is a similar design.
Filter size different but i think large enough, the neck where it merges towards the throttle/maf setup is much smaller than 4.7 GT that's the big difference.

You can not retrofit the later ZF style airbox (wide mount) on a narrow mount car (04-07 QP F1) the sub-frame mounts are physically very different.
ALSO later air-boxes integrate the MAF sensor, 04-07 QP F1 has a loose MAF sensor (different type as well)

rs48635 · Dec 31, 2021

A.S. Motorsport said:
Air box on a drysump QP is totally different (90 degree's tilted) the cold intake ducts are present there the feed of cold air is a similar design.
Filter size different but i think large enough, the neck where it merges towards the throttle/maf setup is much smaller than 4.7 GT that's the big difference.

You can not retrofit the later ZF style airbox (wide mount) on a narrow mount car (04-07 QP F1) the sub-frame mounts are physically very different.
ALSO later air-boxes integrate the MAF sensor, 04-07 QP F1 has a loose MAF sensor (different type as well)

Will go and look under the bonnet soon to refresh memory. I do really the filer is at 90 degrees to intake. Isa it possible to fit a cone type filter remotely via big pipe? The Cerberati filter is like a huge proboscis monkey and will not fit in my car (on grounds of taste at least

)

A.S. Motorsport · Dec 31, 2021

rs48635 said:
Will go and look under the bonnet soon to refresh memory. I do really the filer is at 90 degrees to intake. Isa it possible to fit a cone type filter remotely via big pipe? The Cerberati filter is like a huge proboscis monkey and will not fit in my car (on grounds of taste at least )

I would not recommend that, your basically sucking hot air that has passed the radiator (and fully heated to 60-70c)
That will lose power, the GT4 and Trofeo work different these have a huge hood inlet duct rams cold air into the cone (and then the exhaust ducts in the hood extract hot air)

In my opinion the only extra upgrade you could do to the air intake is
A, make the flow to the inlet pipe exiting the airbox (towards maf) as efficient as possible
B, a elaborate auxiliary inlet to the airbox just like Ferrari did on 550/575 (would only work with face lift Stradale bonnet with the dummy intake which you'd open)

midlifecrisis · Dec 31, 2021

Would the air get that hot when passing the radiator at speed? maybe a few degrees possibly worse when stationary but not that much, surely?

Gazcw · Dec 31, 2021

midlifecrisis said:
Would the air get that hot when passing the radiator at speed? maybe a few degrees possibly worse when stationary but not that much, surely?

Problem solved.

A.S. Motorsport · Dec 31, 2021

midlifecrisis said:
Would the air get that hot when passing the radiator at speed? maybe a few degrees possibly worse when stationary but not that much, surely?

All air is managed in a GT and QP.
All frontal air goes ether through center which is enclosed conveyor to the radiator (just in-front there are two scoops for air filters) then you have the side ducting bleeds trough the wheel arches (brake cooling etc) on a F1 it goes against the oil reservoir,

This makes your radiator conveyor a high pressure area (full incoming air speed car speed + wind condition) slowed down by restriction of the radiator, (hence that over pressure enters the air-boxes cold and at incrementally more pressure)
Secondary restriction that a MC Stradale some what resolves is the hot air trapped in the engine bay can't exit easily and builds up back pressure, the hood vents in a MC allow that to escape.

The effectiveness of a ducted intake and exit from radiator is huge just check any race car or modern supercar they all utilize the effect i forgot the basic calculation i recall it's 30% efficiency gain in a directly ducted setup (think GT40, Lotus etc)

Zep · Dec 31, 2021

midlifecrisis said:
Would the air get that hot when passing the radiator at speed? maybe a few degrees possibly worse when stationary but not that much, surely?

Yes, I would say it would. Think about how hot the air is that comes out when the rad fans are on on a cold day.

Or, to put it another way, at max power the engine produces circa 400bhp with a thermal efficiency of, at best, 40%. This means around 600 bhp of heat dissipate. If we assume half goes through the rad, that’s 225kw, or just over 100 fan heaters worth of energy.

More than a few degrees.

A.S. Motorsport · Dec 31, 2021

Zep said:
Yes, I would say it would. Think about how hot the air is that comes out when the rad fans are on on a cold day.

Or, to put it another way, at max power the engine produces circa 400bhp with a thermal efficiency of, at best, 40%. This means around 600 bhp of heat dissipate. If we assume half goes through the rad, that’s 225kw, or just over 100 fan heaters worth of energy.

More than a few degrees.

Correct this is thermal energy is what a turbocharger works off.
This is also something in QP > GT you can see evolution of the front lower splash guard, early QPV is smooth, ZF QP has a square opening after the radiator to dump air out off, in GT that portion actually has a s reverse scoop to get hot air away. (underneath the car, so that's still a compromise in ground effect)

I should have a diagram from Maserati regarding how these flows work, i'll have a look

A.S. Motorsport · Dec 31, 2021

This really shows where the air pressure is buildup in front end forces air through the main grill, you can also see the exists on a Stradale hood,
FYI the side ducts on a Stradale channel air from the wheel arch to the fender outlets, (drag reduction)

CatmanV2 · Dec 31, 2021

A.S. Motorsport said:
Correct this is thermal energy is what a turbocharger works off.
This is also something in QP > GT you can see evolution of the front lower splash guard, early QPV is smooth, ZF QP has a square opening after the radiator to dump air out off, in GT that portion actually has a s reverse scoop to get hot air away. (underneath the car, so that's still a compromise in ground effect)

I should have a diagram from Maserati regarding how these flows work, i'll have a look

@Zep in understanding physics non-shock

C

rs48635 · Jan 1, 2022

A.S. Motorsport said:
View attachment 94866

This really shows where the air pressure is buildup in front end forces air through the main grill, you can also see the exists on a Stradale hood,
FYI the side ducts on a Stradale channel air from the wheel arch to the fender outlets, (drag reduction)

AHA!
The conveyor fires most airflow at the radiator. Does the resistance enable re-direct some airflow up and over into the airbox?

A.S. Motorsport · Jan 3, 2022

rs48635 said:
AHA!
The conveyor fires most airflow at the radiator. Does the resistance enable re-direct some airflow up and over into the airbox?

It's a curved aerofoil shape so it will accelerate extra air in to the air-box, also the airbox wil be work on air pressure in front of the radiator - engine air demand/flow.
Hence i mentioned that during dyno runs it's very hard to generate that effect with simple fan's, versus the car moving through 60-100mph air column

A.S. Motorsport · Apr 8, 2022

Felonious Crud · Apr 8, 2022

Very nice! I do love a bit of well-welded pipework.

Longtube manifolds for GranTurismo (and QPV)

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