Set up gone wrong - falling out of love with the GS

[Marwood]

An unforced, self-inflicted error has just reinforced what I love most about my GS. Steering it.

At its last service I asked the garage (who've looked after it for the past 6 or so years) if they could take a look the wheel set up, add a bit of toe-in perhaps, to make it a touch less twitchy on A roads. Now I don't really know what I'm talking about here - I know more about the mating patterns of North American Cod than I do about setting up sports cars, but I read that it was a common adjustment so wanted to try.

Goof.

Previously the steering was light, flickable and the car dived into corners but never felt nervous or twitchy (except going, er, briskly on cambered roads). Accurate but relaxing on the motorway, great on the track and wonderful through right-left-right sequences. The back always felt planted yet the car felt nimble and 'all of a piece'. When it slid, it never felt scary...which I have always found remarkable. You could even feel the steering get lighter under really strong acceleration...

I have had 20 or people drive it over the past few years (doing my bit to spread the gospel), with everyone from racers to car-hating eco weenies having a go. The steering and cornering were always the things that they commented on.

The garage realigned everything, noting that my back wheels had been doing odd things and I took the car back. It felt like a truck. Worse, the back end felt like it was rolling over and coming around on me. The traction light never flickered but the sensation was alarming. (Full disclosure: I also had some new tyres put on the back, swapping Vredstiens (or however you spell it) which I always found fine, for Eagles, which so many recommend).

I went back and the shop were more than happy to re-adjust and initially I thought it felt better (or at least that I should man up and give it a go). However, after a 200 mile trip yesterday, on every kind of road and surface, I realised that it didn't feel like my car at all: its twitchy on the motorway, slow witted on roundabouts, vague on overtakes. My hands and arms ached from steering and gripping the wheel - not something I'd experienced driving the GS before.

I am not pretending for one second to have a highly tuned sense of anything so if any of this sounds bit Pseuds Corner, forgive me. But I'm astonished how a few minor tweaks (I guess) could make such a difference...and how my enjoyment of the car has almost evaporated - to the point where, if this was it, I'd sell it. The steering and way it cornered, more than the engine, looks or anything else, I realise now, are the things that made me get up at 6am on a Sunday for a blast.

A chat with my race car buddy about this just added confusion. He couldn't square 'light steering' and 'fast turn in' with being stable and reassuring, telling me (pretty bluntly) that I'm a numpty and was just used to an oddly set up car.

So I'd welcome your thoughts, GS friends. Does the way I described my (original) steering sound familiar? Is this how GS's are meant to be...or just the way mine was?

Is setting up these things a black art known only to a few or are there numbers available which any good garage can dial in to produce the effect?

Thanks for you help and patience.

M

 

[CatmanV2]

What was the setup before they adjusted it? Did they give you the before readings?

Zep's crew in Northampton would probably be able to give you what you want. Unless something is worn / broken and they've not noticed....

C

 

[allandwf]

I would have thought, hoped, they would have before and after figures.

 

[RW3200]

You say you changed the rear tyres, are they the same as what you have on the front?

How is the tyre wear on the front tyres, are they worn evenly?

I would suggest checking these simple things first before going for any counter acting fiddling.
Like you say the slightest adjustment can make a vast difference to how the car behaves, so uneven wearing tyres or mismatched front and rear sets could be responsible.
Don't doubt the Eagles, they are a great tyre and I'm sure you will agree when you are able to properly put them to test.

 

[Swedish Paul]

Setting these cars up is a blavk art!! Mine was with the Maserati dealers for the 30,000 km service, and it took them hours and hours. The steering on mine is solid, well weighted, and it does what I tell it. My recommendation is only let someone who knows these cars ever touch it.

 

[zagatoes30]

Tyres can make a massive difference in feel and although I love Eagles I would have thought this change is likely to have much more impact. If you have the old readings. most do, put it back to that setup and see how you go probably cheaper than switching tyres

 

[Wack61]

My 4200 was very twitchy on motorways with mismatched low tyres on but pilot sport 4s transformed it , twitchy driving there , different car on the way back

 

[EnzoMC]

my GS is as you described at the start, it took me some time to get used to, as above took some time to get setup right.

maybe get it to blackboots, i think a few on here use them

 

[voicey]

A properly set up GS should be a joy to drive but they take time and skill to set up properly. I can recommend Tony @ Wheels in Motion if you want to try someone else.

 

[EnzoMC]

agree try these guys...

A properly set up GS should be a joy to drive but they take time and skill to set up properly. I can recommend Tony @ Wheels in Motion if you want to try someone else.

isn't wheels in motion / blackboots the same place

 

[ANY]

I would start with checking the tyre pressures, especially if the tyres were changed at the same time you did the first alignment. Too high pressure makes terrible results on the handling on those cars is my experience. I remember once I went home after changing my rear tyres and had a hard time keep the car on the motorway. At home I noticed the pressure was around 2.7 bars. When reduced to 2.1 it was perfect again. Very sensitive.

 

[spkennyuk]

2.7 bar. No wonder it was allover the show. Its getting on for 30% over inflated. You probably only had road contact with 40% of the tyre width at a guess with that pressure.

 

[conaero]

Ok it sounds to me (and after our chat at Brookies) that you have an issue and you need to start with the basics.

Tyres: as mentioned above, correct pressures and maybe brand new tyres.
Roll bars: check for splitting bushes.
Drop links: undo and make sure they are stiff and not loose
Rear tie rods: squirming under acceleration ponts to this
Springs: you may have a broken one. They usually sheer at the bottom first coil
Shocks: defective/broken shocks are common
Geo setup: go to Emblem and ask for their modified GS setup

Modification: speak to Benny about suspension ECU software modification. You can have the reaction rate speeded up. What this means is when you turn in the activecshock stiffens quicker and gets rid of that nurvous turn in wobble.

Some things to think about.

 

[Marwood]

Thanks all for comments and suggestions. Good to know too that the light and accurate feel I remember wasn't a figment of my imagination...

I'll start with pressures and let you know how I get on. (And in answer to the tyre questions raised, the fronts are three year old Vreds and the rears are the new Eagles).

M

 

[RW3200]

Thanks all for comments and suggestions. Good to know too that the light and accurate feel I remember wasn't a figment of my imagination...

I'll start with pressures and let you know how I get on. (And in answer to the tyre questions raised, the fronts are three year old Vreds and the rears are the new Eagles).

With regard to the tyres, as you have one brand on the front and another on the rear then this would be my start point. The problem here is that different brands often don't compliment each other as you have different compounds, side wall rigidity, tread pattern etc. Different wear levels is also an imbalance which may be exaggerated.
If I was having you're problem I would bite the bullet and match the fronts to the rears, this will give you a sound base to start from before getting the set-up readjusted. If the tyres don't match then any tweeks to the handling will be compensating, to a large extent, for the imbalance they create.
These cars are sensitive performance vehicles and therefore have lower tolerances to aim for than the everyday run about. The average Ford focus would absorb some imbalance but our cars are not everyday do-all vehicles.

As a rule I would not run different tyres front to back or any other worse combination on any car. The tyres are your connection to the road so a fundamental safety component before starting on anything else.

Good luck getting that original feeling back, I'm sure its not too far away.

R

 

[alfatwo]

Just like early Alfa 4c's, first of all before anything else you need lots more front castor!

Dave

 

[zagatoes30]

Mis matched tyres on any car is an issue but on Masers is mad, get the same on all 4 corners, set the pressures and work from there

 

[3leftovercrest]

I did not post this back last year when the issue happened but this post has reminded me of what happened to me...

So (and luckily), got my 3rd set of boots for the Stradale from Lancasters. A few weeks or so after, I started to feel the car "wandering" around. Now I am lucky enough to have quite a few cars and always try to drive as many as possible, so I thought that it was "just me" and I was comparing the Strad with the Evora 400 (and if you have one, you will know what I mean with an insane planted but compliant feeling you always get with it) and the Strad feels like a boat compared to the Evora.....

So the Strad was wandering on the main A roads and motorways to the extent that I thought something was wrong. Then I thought it was just me and then was convinced that something was wrong. Felt like the rear offside damper was failing.

Anyway, I took her to Lancasters who did a road check with me and said yes, there was something wrong... Car went in and they said that the geometry was out. That did not jive with me but hey ho, I accepted it. Took her home, felt ok, thought nothing of it.

Drove her again about 2 weeks later and was on the A12 and car was seriously wandering over the road. So I did a test as I thought I was "yawing" the steering wheel when changing gear. So held elbow on transmission tunnel and other one on the door and changed gear but held the wheel firm. Car literally dove towards the left. Sh*t. Did it again, same happened. So then I thought, was it the accelerator? Why? When rallying, you drive by changing the balance of the car. Acceleration changes the balance and guess what? It was doing it again. When I change gear, I have always feathered the throttle.

So really, really worrying and making the car virtually undriveable and dangerous. So back to Lancasters again. They then had the car for 4 weeks trying to diagnose the problem. Not their fault but bloody Maserati UK not letting them just get on with it as one would have done in the old days.

Suspension came off, back on again, nothing wrong as far as the parameters suggested.

In the end, they had another Strad come in and someone sensible suggested that they change my rear wheels for that cars rear wheels. And you know what, car was perfect!

They got Pirelli down to to testing and after 4 weeks, it was found that one of the rears they fitted was made with the wrong compound!! It was the correct tyre, all 4 were brand new.. The rear nearside had a different compound. Got 4 new tyres to reset but was really lucky I got Lancasters to supply and fit the tyres.

So yes, I would look at the tyres. I only "ever" have the same front and rear and always have all 4 replaced at the same time....

I still can not believe it, but that's what happened.

Stu

 

[Contigo]

Stu, I have that on mine. It's got brand new tyres all around, suspension is fine and geometry is fine.

Potenza's on the rear and Hankook S1 Evo's on the front.

You reckon I ditch the Hankook front's for Potenza's?

 

[3leftovercrest]

Phil,

All I can say is that because the compound was wrong (how could that ever be but I can assure that all 4 brand new tyres were exactly the same?), it was like having one totally different tyre.

As an example, I held steady at 60mph and accelerated, car immediately veered to the left, came off the accelerator, car drifted back to the straight ahead.

Once tyres changed, never happened again and runs straight and true.

This was my experience. If the mechanicals are correct, then the only option is to change the tyres. I have never run different tread directions patterns front and rear on any car. If tyre pressures can have such an effect, then mismatched tread patterns would probably also have an effect.

Stu..