Today's Levante Update (it could change tomorrow of course)

[daverichardson]

Conaero , Contigo and Safrane are right
I think we must accept we are a dying breed, my youngest boy has driven my QP and gets enormous pleasure out of it as evidenced by his smile. He will however end up driving an electric/hybrid/hydrogen whatever and that is ok as time moves on.
So we should celebrate how lucky we are (for all the faults) right now - even with the Levante

 

[bigbob]

Why am I negative on it? I fear like many that this and other run of the mill cars will become the mainstay of the brand with the sports cars playing second fiddle if at all. My ultimate fear is it will end up like jaguar. Some great racing history but now dependent on mainstream saloons and 4x4s with a smattering of sporty cars whos brand still has a tarnished image of Arthur Daily and my Grandads slippers.

I also remember the bi-turbo years...ok the brand survived but at what cost.

I really don't understand the problem here. The F type is a great car and the XK was a decent cheaper alternative to the GranTurismo.

The bigger threat to Maserati is how FCA juggle Alfa with Maserati because the current messages are mixed. I find this strange as Alfa is a £20-50k brand and Maserati a £60-120k one IMHO but FCA don't seem able to work this out.

The brand will survive in some way and if it takes Ghibli (a reasonable car) and Levante (the numbers car) to make this happen then I'm fine with it.

 

[conaero]

Bob, it's almost how they consider Maserati done and efforts are moving to Alfa now.

Agree the Ghibli is a descent car and Benny and I made a conscious desision from the off to champion it on here in the face of all the critism. The Levante for me is a step too far though. QP is on its knees and not selling so why should another luxury barge be any different.

Hope I a proved wrong but I can't see it.

Going to enjoy the GranSport for now with only a new Stradale tugging at my heart strings:

 

[m1980k]

I wouldn't approach this situation with any optimism.

Look at the track record. Demand for new cars is highest when the model is brand new. If the 4200 had been launched with the handling and gearchange of a GS, it would have been a bigger hit. If the GT had the 4.7 from the start, it would have been a bigger hit. But the first iteration of a new model gets all the attention - if that is flawed, it is hard to undo the damage with later facelifted versions. The GS and GT 4.7 got great reviews, but it was too late!

Now throw Alfa into the mix. The 4C. Great ingredients (ok, maybe not the engine), but something went horribly wrong. I suspect that the 500bhp Giulia will be great in some respects but will have at least one huge dynamic flaw that makes the driving experience inferior to that of the M3 or C63.

Compare all this to what Porsche did with the Cayenne - the first version (let's set aside the looks) drove better than the competition and was a huge hit. It redefined what people expected in this segment. It also helped that the Porsche brand is know for great driving dynamics. Ferrari also hits the bullseye first time, or at least they do with their most important models (California was an exception, maybe 575 but that was in itself a revised 550). The 550, 458, 599 and F12 are all awesome. When Ferrari release a revised model, it's simply to make it even more awesome, like the Speciale.

The Levante, although it's hard to judge from the disguised pics, looks lardy and under-wheeled. What is it about this SUV that is going to blow the competition away?

 

[conaero]

Look at the track record. Demand for new cars is highest when the model is brand new. If the 4200 had been launched with the handling and gearchange of a GS, it would have been a bigger hit.

What is it about this SUV that is going to blow the competition away?

Some very valid points there.

Maserati work on a 2 year customer rotation.

They sell them the lite version first then when they trade it in the can then have the full fat version. This way they get 2 sales instead of one.

They are again doing this with the Ghibli. The offer a single turbo desiel which has been out for 2 years now and sold quite well, and a V6 petrol. We will see a twin turbo desiel and a high performance S model shortly I expect.

Re Levante, they should put the QPS turbo V8 in it along with a TTD, but I expect they will water it down and hope the badge does the rest then the TTD and QPS engines on the refresh.

 

[m1980k]

Some very valid points there.

Maserati work on a 2 year customer rotation.

Some companies can work like this - you have a loyal customer base that you milk over and over, ideally you gradually raise prices to keep growing your earnings. But car makers these days need to be big and with a lot of the firms out there trying to take market share, who are they going to take it from...?

Maserati did get it pretty much right first time with the QP (maybe not the gearbox) and that is the closest any modern Masser has come to class-leading, mainstream success. So maybe they're due another one of these. Here's hoping. But, for example, an Alfieri that looks great but is under-powered or has iffy handling or something like that would be a total disaster (and a missed opportunity - turbo'd 911 has lost something, F-Type getting a bit long in the tooth now, can't think of anything else that looks even 50% as attractive...).

 

[bigbob]

Bob, it's almost how they consider Maserati done and efforts are moving to Alfa now.

Agree the Ghibli is a descent car and Benny and I made a conscious desision from the off to champion it on here in the face of all the critism. The Levante for me is a step too far though. QP is on its knees and not selling so why should another luxury barge be any different.

Hope I a proved wrong but I can't see it.

Going to enjoy the GranSport for now with only a new Stradale tugging at my heart strings:

View attachment 34313

I think you are right Matt on the Maserati to Alfa point. Its
bizarre to me but it appears to be a done decision.

Ive driven half a dozen Ghiblis and always liked them. Personally I hardly buy saloons but in its space it is great. QP struggling is no surprise as its a Ghibli LWB for much too much money. They should have brought out one car in two wheel bases and not done this silly thing as the QP does not drive or look any different to the Ghibli once you are in the driver's seat.

I still don't understand the Levante hang up so we will have to differ on that.

PS I am enjoying them managing not to replace the GT as I still have a production car and the residuals are ace.

 

[conaero]

PS I am enjoying them managing not to replace the GT as I still have a production car and the residuals are ace.

Its a great motor. We were all discussing the 3rd facelift GT at Ace last week. We know the basic, touch system, a bit more power, some new wheels and trim but we all agreed we would like to see the rear end, esp the lights to get a refresh.

 

[bigbob]

Its a great motor. We were all discussing the 3rd facelift GT at Ace last week. We know the basic, touch system, a bit more power, some new wheels and trim but we all agreed we would like to see the rear end, esp the lights to get a refresh.

Yep the rear lights could do with some work. Also the GT Sport front end does not work for me whereas the pre-facelift front end - still the current 4.2 front end - and the Stradale front end both look great IMHO.

How much more power, surely pretty much all done at 460PS?

Also what about the ZF 8 speed auto to replace the 6?

 

[Rwc13]

I also don't get the hang up with the Levante. But then neither did I get the hang up with the Ghibli for which there were so many initial deriders, quite a lot of whom have now warmed to it. I agree it needs to be good, but if it's based on the Ghibli platform with the SQ4 running gear, why shouldn't it be? Why don't we wait to see an undisguised version and, perhaps even drive it, before we write it off?

 

[Contigo]

Conaero , Contigo and Safrane are right
I think we must accept we are a dying breed, my youngest boy has driven my QP and gets enormous pleasure out of it as evidenced by his smile. He will however end up driving an electric/hybrid/hydrogen whatever and that is ok as time moves on.
So we should celebrate how lucky we are (for all the faults) right now - even with the Levante

I know what you mean. I let a colleague who is not remotely into cars (drives a Diesel Audi) drive the QP for a good 10 mile blast today and you should have seen the smile on his face, windows down and using the paddles to down change and listening for the pops and bangs and blips and he said there really is nothing like it. He did not want it to end and asked how much new, I told him £73k and then told him how much it was up for sale at and he couldn't believe it. He's right, there is no better car for the money out there. These cars despite marking a new Era for Maserati are in fact now a memory of the bygone era where not a single **** was given by car manufacturers. Now it's all about meeting Euro n emissions regs and other green credentials which has eaten away at the heart of modern car manufacturing and killed its soul.

 

[bigbob]

I know what you mean. I let a colleague who is not remotely into cars (drives a Diesel Audi) drive the QP for a good 10 mile blast today and you should have seen the smile on his face, windows down and using the paddles to down change and listening for the pops and bangs and blips and he said there really is nothing like it. He did not want it to end and asked how much new, I told him £73k and then told him how much it was up for sale at and he couldn't believe it. He's right, there is no better car for the money out there. These cars despite marking a new Era for Maserati are in fact now a memory of the bygone era where not a single **** was given by car manufacturers. Now it's all about meeting Euro n emissions regs and other green credentials which has eaten away at the heart of modern car manufacturing and killed its soul.

Yep but if you let him drive a contemporary petrol Ghibli/QP he would have been just as impressed.

This forum is in danger of turning into a luddites conference. Modern Maseratis' are still great cars just different as is the case with many manufacturers but they all change with time. I've driven a fair few current 3 series BMWs but I am sure I would prefer the 328i coupe I owned twenty years ago even though it was no faster than a modern 320d and could lose it's tail very easily. The modern car is still impressive though just in a different way.

 

[Contigo]

Yep but if you let him drive a contemporary petrol Ghibli/QP he would have been just as impressed.

This forum is in danger of turning into a luddites conference. Modern Maseratis' are still great cars just different as is the case with many manufacturers but they all change with time. I've driven a fair few current 3 series BMWs but I am sure I would prefer the 328i coupe I owned twenty years ago even though it was no faster than a modern 320d and could lose it's tail very easily. The modern car is still impressive though just in a different way.

I didn't say that he wouldn't be impressed with a new QP or Ghibli and I still believe in the new cars after having driven the Ghibli and been driven by a hooligan in the QP6. Compared to other newer brands which seem to be concerned with reducing emissions and cubic Capacity I think Maserati still make the grade and retain lots of soul. Are they in danger of now losing that DNA under FCA control and with Marchionne pulling the strings? Absolutely yes!

 

[P R]

I didn't say that he wouldn't be impressed with a new QP or Ghibli and I still believe in the new cars after having driven the Ghibli and been driven by a hooligan in the QP6. Compared to other newer brands which seem to be concerned with reducing emissions and cubic Capacity I think Maserati still make the grade and retain lots of soul. Are they in danger of now losing that DNA under FCA control and with Marchionne pulling the strings? Absolutely yes!

They are in danger of losing it I would agree. However, its not a Marchionne thing in my opinion. Its regulation and the industry as it is now which are driving it.

 

[bigbob]

I didn't say that he wouldn't be impressed with a new QP or Ghibli and I still believe in the new cars after having driven the Ghibli and been driven by a hooligan in the QP6. Compared to other newer brands which seem to be concerned with reducing emissions and cubic Capacity I think Maserati still make the grade and retain lots of soul. Are they in danger of now losing that DNA under FCA control and with Marchionne pulling the strings? Absolutely yes!

I think that Maserati has pulled off the Ghibli really well with downsided engines, an ipad style infomatic screen and a new large factory well away from Modena. I still feel that my GranTurismo has a lot in common with the 4200 I had before that and the 3200 I had before that, however, the Ghibli does not have that connection but I still like it and still feel it is a Maserati. Therefore, much of the change we all fear has actually already happened but we still will buy the brand as it is still sufficiently differentiated in it's market place.

 

[lofty]

Could this be it ?

 

[Hexadex]

That doesn't look too bad

 

[Contigo]

That looks like an Infiniti has met a Macan!

 

[conaero]

I know what you mean. I let a colleague who is not remotely into cars (drives a Diesel Audi)

I thought we agreed you were not going to mention that again

 

[CatmanV2]

That doesn't look too bad

Looks like a fake to me

C