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2b1ask1
Special case
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Very doubtful Davey but you are welcome to look into it... http://www.ocap.it/index.php/en/ I wouldn't be at all suprised to get a door slammed in your face the moment the name Maserati is mentioned if Brembo are anything to go by!
jluis
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I had found the catalogue when I posted here that ocap was the manufacturer and ended up forgetting on putting the catalog part.
I have emailed them on 2 different addresses last week and didn't even got a Fu!
Is there any Italian speaking member that can give them a ring?
I have emailed them on 2 different addresses last week and didn't even got a Fu!
Is there any Italian speaking member that can give them a ring?
jluis
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Ah,I forgot to mention that Eurocarparts are OCAP resellers.
I enquired them and they said that they don't sell them online but that I could try to enquire on one of their physical stores.
Problem is, I don't live in the UK ...
If any of you gents wants to ask a local shop, please report back the results.
I enquired them and they said that they don't sell them online but that I could try to enquire on one of their physical stores.
Problem is, I don't live in the UK ...
If any of you gents wants to ask a local shop, please report back the results.
2b1ask1
Special case
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Ok, I have been doing a little more digging into the cast/forged argument, it seems these are indeed hot forged meaning a very crude blank is heated to not far short of molten and is then stamped and 'formed' into the shape desired in a very powerful press, the excess material is allowed to flow out between the two half of the formers in the desired locations giving the trim lines we see on our wishbones.
What the 'forming' does is force the crystalline alloy into ordered directions increasing the strength in the process. Various techniques in the cooling process additionally strengthen and harden or anneal the alloys as necessary.
Now I go back to the 'forming' around the bushes (or the holes that will take the bushes), this is completed during this process to create this circular ring of crystallisation however it also means that we have a point where the the two halves come together to complete the ring, bear in mind that this is not molten but only close to molten it will not perfectly weld itself.... Bingo we have our failure point!
What the 'forming' does is force the crystalline alloy into ordered directions increasing the strength in the process. Various techniques in the cooling process additionally strengthen and harden or anneal the alloys as necessary.
Now I go back to the 'forming' around the bushes (or the holes that will take the bushes), this is completed during this process to create this circular ring of crystallisation however it also means that we have a point where the the two halves come together to complete the ring, bear in mind that this is not molten but only close to molten it will not perfectly weld itself.... Bingo we have our failure point!
D Walker
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That makes total sense - If you got a new set I wonder if it would be possible to heat treat and test (Radiograph) to ensure fusion!
My welding / metallurgy is very limited though - I know we carry out a similar process when replacing large bore pipework and welded in valves etc.
Dave
My welding / metallurgy is very limited though - I know we carry out a similar process when replacing large bore pipework and welded in valves etc.
Dave
Andyk
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You'll never get anywhere with Brembo....Major Italian company and in bed with Maserati......
Swedish Paul
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I have Brembo brakes on my Porky. And Astons. And Ferraris. And, and and.....
jluis
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conaero
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In a word, no.
D Walker
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Agreed, a proper engineered solution is required.
VMSRTI
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Agree. If a better solution was found, I would be interested in buying in case I need them.
davy83
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The cost of tooling that up must be astronomical. it certainly explains how they are made and why they are so strong in the first place.
Now at the risk of invoking much anger, I still feel this is caused by stress in the bushing because the whole suspension system is "shimmed" into position and indeed "shimmed" to get the geometry right, if in the process of setting the geometry some twist or off straight forces are put around the bushes this will create a whole new set of stresses around that bush mounting. The original set up in the factory should probably ideally not have these sort of stresses. i suspect that its so easy to mess around with the shims that it seems logical to me that it is also easy to get twist and off centre forces on the bushes (including fitting after market bushes of unknown size or hardness), created a stress point. its seems clear from the chat about how these are made that the seam that cracks, is the weakest part of the suspension arm, and i agree there should be plenty of safety margin so this cannot happen. Am I surprised that it is so easy to break the suspension by messing around with shims? not really. I am not sure what the "improved design" will be? for me i think a lot of care when assembling making sure you dont "just tighten the bolts up" as i have been tempted to a few times, and try to go through a much slower process making sure the bushes are free moving, not compressed laterally or twisted. you can all shout at me now for daring to suggest it might be sort of our fault.
Now at the risk of invoking much anger, I still feel this is caused by stress in the bushing because the whole suspension system is "shimmed" into position and indeed "shimmed" to get the geometry right, if in the process of setting the geometry some twist or off straight forces are put around the bushes this will create a whole new set of stresses around that bush mounting. The original set up in the factory should probably ideally not have these sort of stresses. i suspect that its so easy to mess around with the shims that it seems logical to me that it is also easy to get twist and off centre forces on the bushes (including fitting after market bushes of unknown size or hardness), created a stress point. its seems clear from the chat about how these are made that the seam that cracks, is the weakest part of the suspension arm, and i agree there should be plenty of safety margin so this cannot happen. Am I surprised that it is so easy to break the suspension by messing around with shims? not really. I am not sure what the "improved design" will be? for me i think a lot of care when assembling making sure you dont "just tighten the bolts up" as i have been tempted to a few times, and try to go through a much slower process making sure the bushes are free moving, not compressed laterally or twisted. you can all shout at me now for daring to suggest it might be sort of our fault.
mjheathcote
Centenary Club
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I still think it is down to the corrosion of the bushing sleeve that expands and then causes the split.
The bushing sleeve needs to be stainless steel.
I bet cars that have not been used in winter weather, or those in warm dryer climates, have a much lower failure rate.
Therefore if you have okay arms, can you buy replacement bushings with stainless steel sleeves....must check superpro. EDIT: not listed :-(
The bushing sleeve needs to be stainless steel.
I bet cars that have not been used in winter weather, or those in warm dryer climates, have a much lower failure rate.
Therefore if you have okay arms, can you buy replacement bushings with stainless steel sleeves....must check superpro. EDIT: not listed :-(