Brexit!

Norway (and Switzerland), they follow the EU rules in general and it isn't a problem to do business across borders as agrrements are in place to make trade as easy as possible. After all, why would the EU want to restrict potential export markets. Matters not to Toyota if cars are built in the UK. They maintain the business because of productivity don't they? It's not like the old days with protectionism and such. Being in or out wont make that much difference.

Norway also does OK because of their oil/gas revenues.

Out for me.

The problem is, if you ask most of our 20 something age group shop floor workers what the EU is, they wouldn't have a clue, and they are allowed to vote!
You should have to undertake a touch screen test before allowing to vote, to ensure you actually know what you are voting for!

Big committees never work in my experience, usually run by 'committee' types who hide behind a consensus. Leaders run countries and leaders are the type of people others instinctively want to follow.......some have been wrong admittedly.

The EU has no leader or worse doesn't allow 'leader' types to rise to the top. Self interest and low profile abounds with no checks or balances. Overt nationalism is frowned upon but that is what gives a country its identity and makes the people proud. Merkel's attempt to wipe the moral slate clean has changed Europe forever and extreme right wing agendas are building on people's fears.

Time to row our own boat before it is too late.............in two years from now our choices will be between a rock and a hard place. IMO of course

The problem for me is that if you buy something from Norway taxes are applied. I used to get radar display parts from Norway, you would order at a price plus carriage only for DHL or UPS to demand the import duty before delivery.

My other point is, IMMIGRATION! I'm all in favour of freedom of movement but why should a Mexican marry a Hungarian and get UK benefits straight away without working first. A Mexican who marries an Englishman, has to pay(£700) and apply for a visa to enter the country as a Fiancée. Then pay (£700) and apply as a Spouse. Then pay(£800) and apply again after 3 years, plus pay £500 to the NHS despite her working full time in a job that pays above the national average and paying taxes. And then pay and apply after 5 years to get British nationality. (Now do you understand why I haven't got a loud exhaust on my 4200!)

The problem with the whole Europe question is that is too polarised. Change the immigration laws to something consistent and I'm all for it but it's those idiots in Brussels on the gravy train I'm in contempt off. There's too many overheads in running the European council.

I think a few points above match my view.

I would keep the trading bloc as having individual trade agreements with each country would mean we are more susceptible to protectionism from individual states within the EU and it provides a more stable trade platform.

I would keep harmonised standards for products because this would reduce costs for making and selling products such as chemicals, trains, cars etc. I know we could just match the standards in our own, but there will be increased costs for testing and certifying from outside the EU.

I would get rid of political and economic union as it is a failed experiment. It has hamstrung some of the smaller states and the setting of economic policy to suit German and French interests has really hurt living standards in the likes of Italy and Spain (while giving them grants for motorways and airports no-one needs). The biggest problem I see with European politics is that the European bureaucracy is so wedded to its ideals that it cannot shift to meet new challenges, for example the Schengen system allows free movement to both law abiding people and those that would do us harm., it needs reform as it is no longer fit for the world we live in. If they appeared to be more pragmatic and sane I doubt this conversation would be happening at all.

I am definitely for leaving, as are a lot of my mates for many of the reasons already posted
I am a little Englander and proud of it, I am not the same as a Greek farmer or a French car worker and so forth
Interesting though the consensus on here seems to be to leave

"Interesting though the consensus on here seems to be to leave"

I wonder how many people on this thread are employed and how many have their own business. It would be interesting to know.

Swedish Paul said:

"Interesting though the consensus on here seems to be to leave"

I wonder how many people on this thread are employed and how many have their own business. It would be interesting to know.

Click to expand...

Self employed here and want out

Should we do this properly and have a poll?
The reasons for the individuals choice are many and varied and there will be differences of opinion
But when it comes down to it we put our cross in a box and live with the consequences

I rely quite a bit on EU laws to help my business and for that reason would support it, however lets wake up everyone England/Britain will never be what it was in the 50's, we didn't do ourselves any favours with all the strikes which opened the doors for us to import labour from other countries, it will never return to what it was.

I live 6 miles North of Wolverhampton, just have a walk around there, the EU didn't create what it is now, it was created back in the 60's when British workers didn't want to work but would rather strike. Indeed IMHO the EU keeps a check on our policies, maybe even acts as the Governments conscience.

I'm a Londoner and spent much of my college years around Brixton/Streatham/Tulse Hill, we weren't in the EU then, but select areas were becoming badly segregated, does anyone remember the riots of the late 70's/early 80's, that was a very scary place to be.

No we need a balance with Zero immigration and the ability to always control our borders but with a control on some of our policies which to be quite frank with some of our Prime Ministers of the last 30 years would have made Britain a dictatorship.

I'm not a socialist or a right winger and don't have the time for sitting on the fence liberals, in fact I voted the Green Party last time as I can't stand any of the current past leaders and don't believe in wasting a vote, although I have to admit that owning large powerful cars does go against the grain and for that accept being labelled as a hypocrite. I can't stand our current PM , but have to admit that he does appear to have turned the economy out of the doldrums, or at least it appears that way.

So the biggest issue is that we have let the EU control us, my father was Hungarian and to be truthful applaud the Hungarians stance on immigration, they might not have the best economy or make the best of decisions but after many visits to Budapest they are a race who are proud of their heritage and who they are, much like we as nation were prior to the 60's.

OK off my soap box now.

I run my own business and we sell all around the world and whether we are in the EU or not will make not one bit of difference,... well maybe a tiny bit more paperwork. All the hysterics in the news about how it would be financially ruinous for us is absolute tosh.

As has already been mentioned there's too much trade at stake to "cut us off" if were to exit the EU so trade deals will be struck, just as they have been done with the other non-EU countries in the European land mass.

Had the EU been about trade and cooperation it could have been great. Sadly it's turned into some kind of social experiment trying to create the Unites States of Europe which none of the people wanted.. only the politicians.. no doubt to feather their already corruptly made nests. I remember talking to some German friends who were far from happy when the Euro came in. Nobody wanted it and all that happened to the prices were that Deutschmarks were substituted for Euro signs... except on their pay cheques...

We now have the stupid situation where everything seems politically dead-locked between waring factions in a bureaucratic red tape ****. It's a bloated mess where massively different economies are forced together in a broken marriage without having common interest rates or taxes across the board.

It's like the countries involved all want the benefits of being in a common "state" without actually handing over any real financial controls.

A GCSE economics student could point out what a clusterfu*k this was all going to be. Actually I take that back.. a 5 year old could see what was coming..!

They should scrap it all and go back to simple trade agreements between the nations. KISS.

What worries me is the power of the media to manipulate the masses without actually using any facts in all of this...

So yes.. out..!

Mark

I make that > 5:1 for leaving on here, I can only hope the general public see it the same way but I think in reality it will be far closer when the spin has been applies and everyone who is able to get a vote on this votes and those that have a vote but don't use it don't. I'm not surprised by the replies on here as we are a reasonably informed lot who are mostly established home owners, in management or business owners. Digging out the old socio-economic groupings, I believe that puts most of us in AB....

Have my own business, out out out out all day long.
+removing all the foreign fishing vessels from our waters
would be nice.

I seem to recall at the start it was called "The Common Market".

EU seems to have overstepped the original mandate. Maybe.

mchristyuk said:

I run my own business and we sell all around the world and whether we are in the EU or not will make not one bit of difference,... well maybe a tiny bit more paperwork. All the hysterics in the news about how it would be financially ruinous for us is absolute tosh.

As has already been mentioned there's too much trade at stake to "cut us off" if were to exit the EU so trade deals will be struck, just as they have been done with the other non-EU countries in the European land mass.

Had the EU been about trade and cooperation it could have been great. Sadly it's turned into some kind of social experiment trying to create the Unites States of Europe which none of the people wanted.. only the politicians.. no doubt to feather their already corruptly made nests. I remember talking to some German friends who were far from happy when the Euro came in. Nobody wanted it and all that happened to the prices were that Deutschmarks were substituted for Euro signs... except on their pay cheques...

We now have the stupid situation where everything seems politically dead-locked between waring factions in a bureaucratic red tape ****. It's a bloated mess where massively different economies are forced together in a broken marriage without having common interest rates or taxes across the board.

It's like the countries involved all want the benefits of being in a common "state" without actually handing over any real financial controls.

A GCSE economics student could point out what a clusterfu*k this was all going to be. Actually I take that back.. a 5 year old could see what was coming..!

They should scrap it all and go back to simple trade agreements between the nations. KISS.

What worries me is the power of the media to manipulate the masses without actually using any facts in all of this...

So yes.. out..!

Mark

Click to expand...

I'm not in the same market as you, but I've always thought the same. Unfortunately, there are too many with vested interests who are insisting that we stay in.

Swedish Paul said:

I seem to recall at the start it was called "The Common Market".

EU seems to have overstepped the original mandate. Maybe.

Click to expand...

This. In a nutshell.

I've just picked up the laptop since writing my opening post last night and it's been a fascinating read catching up on the very articulate SM opinions - and good to see at least on here I'm not alone in my thinking.

I was discussing BREXIT with some colleagues last night over a couple of beers (we don't get out much ) so thought I'd post the Q on here - as now I've got to learn that a majority of my friends plus 100% of my colleagues will vote to leave.

Most of my circle work in the same industry so maybe we are not a fair consensus of opinion, but I think it's fair to say that SM membership covers a broad spectrum of the electorate that reflects peoples' opinions who work across many industries and businesses so it's enlightening to understand the reasons for your voting decisions and how you see the impact being - in fact maybe in future Ipsos MORI should use forums as part of their research/polling process.....!

I've heard the argument that if we do leave then some companies could/would look to move there European HQs out of Britain, but surely why would they move to France, Spain, Italy, former Soviet states etc. where strict employment laws + militant unions + mandatory-9-to-5-including-1hour-lunch-break (i.e. France...) are in place - how can this be a viable and attractive alternative, plus they don't speak English... Wonder what Benny thinks.....

Anyway, we can only hope that the 'Leave' campaign gathers momentum and can make a solid case for leaving, and we take back control of the UK again!

Mods - be interesting if we had a thread with voting buttons for 'STAY' and 'LEAVE' - who knows SportsMaserati might be seen as the current-meaningful opinion poll....

BennyD said:

I'm not in the same market as you, but I've always thought the same. Unfortunately, there are too many with vested interests who are insisting that we stay in.

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Unfortunately it's those with the vested interests who have the deepest pockets and who get heard the loudest with the prime news spots and headlines in the filthy rag tops.

For once we can just hope common sense prevails. I think with the underlying current of frustration over immigration it might not actually matter what economic disaster stories are thrown about... Iceland is a great case study on how you can thrive after the financial collapse by telling the banks and the Euro to $£*@ right off!... funny how its success has been mostly ignored by the media?..

Mark

SimonCC said:

but I think it's fair to say that SM membership covers a broad spectrum of the electorate .

Click to expand...

I make no comment on Brexit, but I think this is *very* wrong. At the very least I would postulate that the average income here is well above the norm, as are probably levels of education. I suspect we also have far more self employed people and / or company directors than the population as a whole....
That's just two factors that I'd throw in, which is not to say that the overall view may not match that of the electorate

C