Are you worried yet.

[CatmanV2]

Can’t do that as Boris would then be the PM that cancelled Christmas.



So an it girl called Alexa Chung has produced some microwave chips with Bill Gates to be marketed as MS Fries?

No, she tells all your secrets to the advertisers and then sticks the chip in your mask so you breathe it in. Then the 5Gs can control your brains.

C

 

[Oneball]

No, she tells all your secrets to the advertisers and then sticks the chip in your mask so you breathe it in. Then the 5Gs can control your brains.

C

Good job I bought than anti 5G dongle off eBay then

 

[Wattie]

Hi. I just dropped in to say....

I have just attended a private webinar given by Professor Sir John Bell, Professor of Medicine at the University of Oxford about Covid-19 and the Oxford vaccine.

Firstly, I should say that the man is absolutely brilliant, and the team at Oxford seems to have done some outstanding work, very quickly.

Some things I found interesting included the following:

The Oxford researchers were actively interested in the potential problem of this (at the time unknown) virus in mid December when initial reports of a new respiratory virus problem were starting to emerge.​

​

By early January they were looking at the genome and protein structures, and actively working on a vaccine.​

​

They had a good fast start because they had been working on viral infections, particularly in the developing world, for 30 years. They also had people who had done a lot of work over the past 10 years or so on using adenoviruses to deliver a variety of different messenger RNA vaccines.​

​

So they were very quick to create the right bits of protein, stick them in the adenoviruses (that they were used to working with) and try them out on animals.​

​

What had been a rapid academic research project became more practically focussed (following urging from the Oxford University Vice Chancellor) in about May when they started to discuss manufacturing and delivery with senior medical people at the Gates Foundation (who know about this stuff) and to look for a commercial partner. They ended up with an agreement with AstraZeneca, which included a commitment to sell the vaccine at cost-plus-20%, which is basically non-profit.​

​

They chose AstraZeneca partly because it is a UK company and they were concerned about the risk of 'vaccine nationalism' (particularly by the USA), although that fear seems to have subsided. By way of disclosure, Professor Bell does seem to have had some commercial relationships with both AstraZeneca and Roche, including being paid quite a lot for Board and Committee work in the past.​

​

Primate trials in late spring were very promising with very clear differences in health outcomes between vaccinated and control animals, which had all been exposed to high doses of the virus.​

​

By the summer they were in 'stage 3' testing, and had vaccinated about 10,000 human subjects in the UK. The main problem was, apparently, that there was so little of the virus endemic in the UK over the summer (between 1st wave and 2nd wave) that it was hard to get enough good data on the level of protection the virus offered in the test population. The research was helped by a further testing in Brazil (and South Africa) where another 10,000 (approximately) people were subjects, and there was much more opportunity (sadly) for people to be exposed to the virus, making testing more effective.​

​

After a nervous wait for the statisticians to do their analysis, it became clear that the virus was very effective indeed in preventing symptoms in the human subjects, but also in preventing replication of the virus in the nasal tract, which is, of course, a key factor in ensuring that vaccinated people are not just protected, but are also much less likely to infect others.​

​

They were aiming for mid 60% efficacy (not quite sure how that is measured), but have been getting over 70% in all trials and over 90% in the most effective delivery format, which is a low dose followed by a high dose. Apparently there is some debate amongst virologists about why this format works best.​

​

They're now scaling up manufacturing in the UK, and also globally. They expect to be mass vaccinating in the UK by January, with the ability to deliver around 5 million doses per week. He didn't seem to be too worried about the ability of the authorities to deliver these vaccines to the population, noting that it is simple to store and delver, and that the health service already delivers 30-40 million flu jabs per year.​

​

Meanwhile, he also had encouraging things to say about other vaccine programmes, notably the leading RNA approaches (Pfizer and someone else – I forget who). He said that the UK authorities might approve the Pfizer vaccine before the FDA in the USA does so, and it might start to be rolled out in the UK slightly before the Oxford vaccine (presumably in December).​

​

He said that the initial priority for vaccinations would be people with high risk of exposure, such as medical staff, and then people with high consequence of exposure, such as old people. But the potential rate of vaccination availability should mean that anyone in the UK willing to be vaccinated could be by the end of April.​

​

On mutation, he said that this virus mutates very slowly, but there is a likelihood of vaccinations driving down the occurrence of the main known variants, and allowing an increased spread of mutated variants. But he feels that they will be able to monitor this and adjust the vaccine, a bit like with flu.​

​

For the long term, he felt that the virus would continue to be endemic at a low level as it is too widespread to be eradicated (and not dangerous enough to be worth eradicating, I think). He pointed out that thousands of people die from flu every year and we cope with that; his implication being that the vaccines and some herd immunity will be sufficient to bring this virus (and ones like it) to a level where we will be willing to tolerate it.​

​

Impressive and encouraging.

That was a good read. Was there any mention of how long the vaccine lasts or whether various continuous top ups would likely be required......?

Can Anyone clarify whether the 3 current vaccines target the same strain.....i’m confused.

 

[CatmanV2]

Good job I bought than anti 5G dongle off eBay then

It'll never work. It was made in China by the establishment. They're just lulling you into a false sense of security

C

 

[doodlebug]

That was a good read. Was there any mention of how long the vaccine lasts or whether various continuous top ups would likely be required......?

Can Anyone clarify whether the 3 current vaccines target the same strain.....i’m confused.

I thought you said you weren't going to have any vaccine. Now I'm confused,

 

[Wattie]

I thought you said you weren't going to have any vaccine. Now I'm confused,

I’m not but that doesn’t preclude me from trying to get an understanding of what’s out there.
Does it?

 

[Simon1963]

I don’t think lifting certain restrictions at Christmas is the right thing to do. But as already said on here it’s a personal choice. We live in East Yorkshire and our 4 kids and their partners are in Norfolk. We usually spend Christmas there but we’ve all decided it’s not worth the risk. Instead when things get to a normalish sort of level we will all get together and have a Christmas weekend. I’ll miss seeing them but it’s not the end of the world.

 

[philw696]

Totally agree Simon for all the people who think this is a Big Hoax 12 months on we're all starting to know people who have had it and even succumbed to it.
For us with family everywhere we communicate more now via Messenger and WhatsApp and once we're back to some normality we will meet up.
For me personally lost loads of work but hasn't greatly affected me and don't miss being on the run 24/7 had to postpone my daughter's wedding no big fuss really.
Here in France Bars, restaurants, cafes, clubs and sports halls staying closed until Jan 20th at the earliest.
There's a relaxation on the curfew for the 24th and 31st of December and that's it still need attestations to do anything.

 

[CatmanV2]

Totally agree Simon for all the people who think this is a Big Hoax 12 months on we're all starting to know people who have had it and even succumbed to it.
For us with family everywhere we communicate more now via Messenger and WhatsApp and once we're back to some normality we will meet up.
For me personally lost loads of work but hasn't greatly affected me and don't miss being on the run 24/7 had to postpone my daughter's wedding no big fuss really.
Here in France Bars, restaurants, cafes, clubs and sports halls staying closed until Jan 20th at the earliest.
There's a relaxation on the curfew for the 24th and 31st of December and that's it still need attestations to do anything.

So what's the public reaction to those restrictions, @philw696 ?

I'm curious, is all

For the avoidance of doubt: I'm not a COVID Hoaxer, and I don't necessarily agree with logical restrictions.
I do, however, disagree with decisions being made on proven bad data, then the logical contortions being spouted to support the non-retraction of those decisions.
And I really oppose to the use of scaremongering to 'win' any kind of debate.

C

 

[Felonious Crud]

Looks like my Christmas plans are up the spout
hey ho

Planned a nice peaceful one on your own..?

 

[Felonious Crud]

Hi. I just dropped in to say....

I have just attended a private webinar given by Professor Sir John Bell, Professor of Medicine at the University of Oxford about Covid-19 and the Oxford vaccine.

Firstly, I should say that the man is absolutely brilliant, and the team at Oxford seems to have done some outstanding work, very quickly.

Some things I found interesting included the following:

The Oxford researchers were actively interested in the potential problem of this (at the time unknown) virus in mid December when initial reports of a new respiratory virus problem were starting to emerge.​

​

By early January they were looking at the genome and protein structures, and actively working on a vaccine.​

​

They had a good fast start because they had been working on viral infections, particularly in the developing world, for 30 years. They also had people who had done a lot of work over the past 10 years or so on using adenoviruses to deliver a variety of different messenger RNA vaccines.​

​

So they were very quick to create the right bits of protein, stick them in the adenoviruses (that they were used to working with) and try them out on animals.​

​

What had been a rapid academic research project became more practically focussed (following urging from the Oxford University Vice Chancellor) in about May when they started to discuss manufacturing and delivery with senior medical people at the Gates Foundation (who know about this stuff) and to look for a commercial partner. They ended up with an agreement with AstraZeneca, which included a commitment to sell the vaccine at cost-plus-20%, which is basically non-profit.​

​

They chose AstraZeneca partly because it is a UK company and they were concerned about the risk of 'vaccine nationalism' (particularly by the USA), although that fear seems to have subsided. By way of disclosure, Professor Bell does seem to have had some commercial relationships with both AstraZeneca and Roche, including being paid quite a lot for Board and Committee work in the past.​

​

Primate trials in late spring were very promising with very clear differences in health outcomes between vaccinated and control animals, which had all been exposed to high doses of the virus.​

​

By the summer they were in 'stage 3' testing, and had vaccinated about 10,000 human subjects in the UK. The main problem was, apparently, that there was so little of the virus endemic in the UK over the summer (between 1st wave and 2nd wave) that it was hard to get enough good data on the level of protection the virus offered in the test population. The research was helped by a further testing in Brazil (and South Africa) where another 10,000 (approximately) people were subjects, and there was much more opportunity (sadly) for people to be exposed to the virus, making testing more effective.​

​

After a nervous wait for the statisticians to do their analysis, it became clear that the virus was very effective indeed in preventing symptoms in the human subjects, but also in preventing replication of the virus in the nasal tract, which is, of course, a key factor in ensuring that vaccinated people are not just protected, but are also much less likely to infect others.​

​

They were aiming for mid 60% efficacy (not quite sure how that is measured), but have been getting over 70% in all trials and over 90% in the most effective delivery format, which is a low dose followed by a high dose. Apparently there is some debate amongst virologists about why this format works best.​

​

They're now scaling up manufacturing in the UK, and also globally. They expect to be mass vaccinating in the UK by January, with the ability to deliver around 5 million doses per week. He didn't seem to be too worried about the ability of the authorities to deliver these vaccines to the population, noting that it is simple to store and delver, and that the health service already delivers 30-40 million flu jabs per year.​

​

Meanwhile, he also had encouraging things to say about other vaccine programmes, notably the leading RNA approaches (Pfizer and someone else – I forget who). He said that the UK authorities might approve the Pfizer vaccine before the FDA in the USA does so, and it might start to be rolled out in the UK slightly before the Oxford vaccine (presumably in December).​

​

He said that the initial priority for vaccinations would be people with high risk of exposure, such as medical staff, and then people with high consequence of exposure, such as old people. But the potential rate of vaccination availability should mean that anyone in the UK willing to be vaccinated could be by the end of April.​

​

On mutation, he said that this virus mutates very slowly, but there is a likelihood of vaccinations driving down the occurrence of the main known variants, and allowing an increased spread of mutated variants. But he feels that they will be able to monitor this and adjust the vaccine, a bit like with flu.​

​

For the long term, he felt that the virus would continue to be endemic at a low level as it is too widespread to be eradicated (and not dangerous enough to be worth eradicating, I think). He pointed out that thousands of people die from flu every year and we cope with that; his implication being that the vaccines and some herd immunity will be sufficient to bring this virus (and ones like it) to a level where we will be willing to tolerate it.​

​

Impressive and encouraging.

Thanks for taking the trouble to write up and post that, Mark. Genuinely interesting. As you say, very encouraging. More than, in fact. A bloody good start to a dark day.

 

[Felonious Crud]

No, she tells all your secrets to the advertisers and then sticks the chip in your mask so you breathe it in. Then the 5Gs can control your brains.

C

Actually, that's true.

 

[philw696]

@CatmanV2 on the whole the people have been very good certainly out of the large cities.
It's cost many lots of money as bars, restaurants and cafes are a big part of life here.
The roads have remained very quite unlike what many say about the UK.
Ms French allowed to work as she is a sales representative dealing with Farms and they work 24/7.
She is doing 7 to 800 miles a week and states how quite it is out there too.
No body wants to spend money unnecessarily as worried about the future which isn't great for her income especially for all the effort she is putting in 10 hour days etc.
They love skiing here and it's worth 10 billion euros and that won't be happening this Christmas.

 

[CatmanV2]

And the business owners aren't up in arms demanding they be allowed to open?

It does rather appear that your lockdown is having the desired affect, although seemed to start from a very high level of cases

C

 

[MarkMas]

That was a good read. Was there any mention of how long the vaccine lasts or whether various continuous top ups would likely be required......?

Can Anyone clarify whether the 3 current vaccines target the same strain.....i’m confused.

My understanding is that ALL the current vaccine efforts are targeting the same primary variant of the SARS-Cov-2 virus that causes Covid-19. If other strains become prevalent then they would tweak the process to adapt to those.

But there are many different types of vaccine and types of delivery method, and I think many different approaches are being tried. Mostly you are trying to find a way to stimulate (or maybe train) T-cells to make antigens that lock onto the pathogen and kill it or make it ineffective.

You can give people a bit of a similar. but less dangerous pathogen (eg cowpox, not smallpox). You can give people the real pathogen, just broken, killed or made less dangerous in some way. You can give people something that looks a bit like the pathogen, to get the T-cells to respond to that. Perhaps best of all, you can get the body to make something that looks a bit like the pathogen.

I think the Oxford approach is the last of those. Using a common and fairly benign virus (an adenovirus), containing a bit of 'messenger RNA', to get the body's own cells to make strands of protein that look like the spikes on a SARS-Cov-2 virus. The T-cells 'see' these 'alien' proteins and gear up to make antibodies. The need for a two-dose approach, may (apparently) be something to do with the T-cells treating first infections as a possible false alarm, but taking a repeat, larger, infection seriously. Or it may be something to do with the body reacting poorly to an initial high dose of the adenovirus, and give all the attention to that, not to the strands of SARS-Cov-2 simulations.

Its a bit Dr Frankenstein, gene-splicing stuff, but these people seem to know what they are doing. And actually I think more vaccines have gone wrong (still very rare) when a dangerous virus has been ineffectually killed or damaged, than when a new bit of surface protein has been manufactured (in a lab or in the body).

 

[GeoffCapes]

My understanding is that ALL the current vaccine efforts are targeting the same primary variant of the SARS-Cov-2 virus that causes Covid-19. If other strains become prevalent then they would tweak the process to adapt to those.

But there are many different types of vaccine and types of delivery method, and I think many different approaches are being tried. Mostly you are trying to find a way to stimulate (or maybe train) T-cells to make antigens that lock onto the pathogen and kill it or make it ineffective.

You can give people a bit of a similar. but less dangerous pathogen (eg cowpox, not smallpox). You can give people the real pathogen, just broken, killed or made less dangerous in some way. You can give people something that looks a bit like the pathogen, to get the T-cells to respond to that. Perhaps best of all, you can get the body to make something that looks a bit like the pathogen.

I think the Oxford approach is the last of those. Using a common and fairly benign virus (an adenovirus), containing a bit of 'messenger RNA', to get the body's own cells to make strands of protein that look like the spikes on a SARS-Cov-2 virus. The T-cells 'see' these 'alien' proteins and gear up to make antibodies. The need for a two-dose approach, may (apparently) be something to do with the T-cells treating first infections as a possible false alarm, but taking a repeat, larger, infection seriously. Or it may be something to do with the body reacting poorly to an initial high dose of the adenovirus, and give all the attention to that, not to the strands of SARS-Cov-2 simulations.

Its a bit Dr Frankenstein, gene-splicing stuff, but these people seem to know what they are doing. And actually I think more vaccines have gone wrong (still very rare) when a dangerous virus has been ineffectually killed or damaged, than when a new bit of surface protein has been manufactured (in a lab or in the body).

Fascinating how they can do all of this. Maybe I should of paid more attention in biology.

 

[RoaryRati]

Ask Zoe/Imperial college are also having a webinar later today - also watchable via youtube

 

[GTVGEOFF]

I’m not but that doesn’t preclude me from trying to get an understanding of what’s out there.
Does it?

Hi Wattie
Hope your health is still improving. I don't know what the virus levels are in your neck of the woods but because of the problems you have had I would have thought it prudent to have the jab, I know I will have it at the first opportunity.
With respect would you mind sharing your reasons, because by all accounts it's pretty safe.

 

[CatmanV2]

Hi Wattie
Hope your health is still improving. I don't know what the virus levels are in your neck of the woods but because of the problems you have had I would have thought it prudent to have the jab, I know I will have it at the first opportunity.
With respect would you mind sharing your reasons, because by all accounts it's pretty safe.

Did you really mean to quote me at the same time?

C

 

[Silvercat]

Yep......like they will stick to any restrictions in Scotland for Hogmanay....
I can’t understand the reasoning behind letting loads of people mix over Xmas....deepest darkest winter, everyone indoors, pubs etc, homes, travel home, mix with another 3 families....
Graphs upward again I suspect.....

Just open your windows...