Brexit Deal

Navcorr

Navcorr

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JonW said:
Agreed - they do. However, he’s the MP for a part of the country (Somerset) that is incredibly loyal to the Tory party, and I suspect whoever the Tory candidate was would have a decent majority.
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Somerset NE was created in 2010 from Wansdyke. Which, prior to JRM standing, had been held by Labour for three elections. Hardly a safe seat. Where you asking for facts in a previous post? ;)
 
JonW

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Navcorr said:
Somerset NE was created in 2010 from Wansdyke. Which, prior to JRM standing, had been held by Labour for three elections. Hardly a safe seat. Where you asking for facts in a previous post? ;)
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I humbly bow my head in shame and beg for forgiveness - foolish knave that I am!
 
Felonious Crud

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Navcorr said:
Somerset NE was created in 2010 from Wansdyke. Which, prior to JRM standing, had been held by Labour for three elections. Hardly a safe seat. Where you asking for facts in a previous post? ;)
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I think we've heard enough from the experts.
 
Felonious Crud

Felonious Crud

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Navcorr said:
I take it you would prefer to retitle this thread to those who agree with FC. Is that how your democracy works :laugh:
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Strange. I think my views have been fairly neutral on the leave / remain topic. What pisses me off is shrill spouters of lies and shite, of which unfortunately our parliament appears to be disproportionately comprised.

And in case you missed the subtlety, my comment was a quote from Michael Give who said "I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts". It was tongue in cheek.
 
MaserCoupe

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Anyone remember the 1987 song by the Hooters called "Satellite". Watching that music video may resonate for some......Un-canny similarities of what is going on in todays world and to the human belief systems people have when voting for charismatic leaders..
 
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MrMickS

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GeoffCapes said:
After the vote the Torys had last night an interesting titbit came up that hasn't been picked up anywhere, which I thought quite relevant.

Teresa May got 200 votes, verses 117 in her confidence vote. However, regardless of whether this is damaging or not, it is still more votes than she got in her leadership contest.
Some might say her popularity within the Tory party has increased.
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As JRM pointed out though around a good proportion of those voting for her this time have government roles based on appointment by her. This adds a little self-interest to their decision making. It still remains that the wider Conservative party wasn't consulted in the election of May. It was a fairly undemocratic fait accompli by the parliamentary party who persuaded Leadsom to withdraw. Given the way the rules were written this left May as the only one of the final two still in the contest and she became PM.

The feeling was that Leadsom would have won the wider vote.

The point is that the Tories chose their leader by democratic means in 2016 and have had another democratic process to confirm their leader in 2018. Something supported by JRM. In both cases the outcome was much wider than the Brexit ref. Stating that a second Brexit ref would be undemocratic appears to be the height of hypocrisy, not that I expect anything else.

I think a second vote should be held. Stay/Leave and for leave May Deal/No Deal. These would be two separate questions. Answers all possible options and leaves Parliament no move to manoeuvre. At present they can cling to "people didn't know what they were voting for", which may be true in some cases but they've wasted the time since not finding out exactly what people wanted. Instead they've continued to play their Westminster Village games rather than what they should have been doing. A classic part of this was wasting time on an election which hamstrung May in her negotiations.
 
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D Walker

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Surely - dependent on your answer to question 1, you may or may not (see what i did there) need to answer the 2nd question...

e.g. Stay - doesn't require you to answer deal / no deal
 
MrMickS

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D Walker said:
Surely - dependent on your answer to question 1, you may or may not (see what i did there) need to answer the 2nd question...

e.g. Stay - doesn't require you to answer deal / no deal
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So if you vote remain but leave wins you shouldn't have any influence on how we left?

I did think that at first but it made the vote more complex. This was a way of getting a definitive "will of the people" regardless of result. If people voting remain choose not to answer the second question then that's their problem. They can't argue that they weren't consulted.
 
Felonious Crud

Felonious Crud

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As far as I can tell, no one knew what they were really voting for in the referendum, exactly what the consequences would be. It was all just supposition, hope and the politics and influence of fear. Even now the range of outcomes appears to be far from certain.

I shall sit back now and wait to be told how wrong I am. Counting you in... :)
 
D Walker

D Walker

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I wonder if the Govt had spent £9m on a leaflet telling us all to vote out - we'd have all voted remain....

Like FC - I will stand back and watch and reap the consequences - From Denmark
 
Felonious Crud

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D Walker said:
I wonder if the Govt had spent £9m on a leaflet telling us all to vote out - we'd have all voted remain....

Like FC - I will stand back and watch and reap the consequences - From Denmark
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I didn't spot the option saying "Bollox to the lot of you, I'm off. Wankers." :)
 
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