Brexit Deal

[Felonious Crud]

Really? I didn't know that, what is that word? does it translate into english?

Oh, I do hope not. Shudder at the thought!

 

[MaserCoupe]

It is isn't it. We are very fortunate to have the life we have so here is a big thumbs up for the UK...bulldog spirit and all that.

Was watching the news or something last night about yet more middle eastern families wanting to come here and putting themselves in peril to achieve it. These are families who have nothing and would do anything to protect their families and for that you cant blame them. Why we should have to pay for this is another matter. The world is a broken place so we should feel very privileged.

When I was growing up, I never thought I would spend my entire life living in the UK, I always thought I would go further afield but alas have not. The UK is an amazing place and a very diverse and vibrant culture where you can pretty much do as you want and for that it should be commended.

Diversity is a wonderful thing including the diversity of opinions, perspectives and values. This is part of what makes the human race and we haven't even scratched the surface of our capability to do greater things yet. We have more things in common than things that divide us. Yep I would agree that part of what makes Britain Great is exactly that, our acceptance and tolerance for difference and being different. Welcoming others is a positive and our culture is only richer for it. No one has to apologise for anything. Everyone has a contribution to make for the collective good of our great nation. Building walls does nothing but block the beautiful views and vistas of and from our great country.....P.S I'm one of those middle Eastern families you talk about.

 

[Wanderer]

We have control of our borders hence the queues at LHR, LGW, Dover, Portsmouth etc. You can drive from Calais to Scilly without a check.
Half the Tories don't want the NHS or BBC.
What's wrong with immigration, if there's a job for an immigrant let them have it if a Brit can't do it, - it's to lax welfare laws not immigration thats the problem. Immigrants dug canals, (Irish Navvies) Immigrants created the cotton Industry (Flemish Weavers)
The EU being a bully?Whilst i don't believe in a federal Europe (like Maggie), I Believe in a United Europe (like Churchill).

That's why these argument don't scan for me.

TBF though when the canals were build Ireland was part of the UK so technically not immigrants....

Pedant mode off....

 

[Felonious Crud]

P.S I'm one of those middle Eastern families you talk about.

In that case, I should like to thank you for the culinary contribution you have made to our country. Middle Eastern food kicks as5.

 

[Wanderer]

Only bureaucracy. mate. The French love a bit of bureaucracy. They even invented a word for it.

Germans have a good word too 'Schadenfreude'.....

Probably using a lot now in Brussels....

 

[GeoffCapes]

The majority of this county want out of the EU, control of their own borders, NHS and immigration, why does this make us a laughing stock, its been fumbled by both sides yes, but we will get there.

I'm not so sure the majority want out of the EU, yes the vote went the leavers way, but that was on the back of a pack of lies told by the leave camp.
We already have control of our borders, having the sea round us helps!
The NHS will be in a worse state if we leave as so many of the lower paid jobs in the NHS are done by immigrants, it's already having an effect. As is the hospitality industry, all these jobs will now have to be filled somehow, and probably by agency workers and temps, all paying higher wages.
Paying higher wages for 'menial' jobs means that there is an imbalance in wages across the board, this leads to inflation.
Inflation affects us all, especially if it starts in wages because it can get out of control and we end up back in the early 70's with huge interest rates, high unemployment, an economy in recession, and discontent.

There's discontent now, obviously, by it will be the tip of the iceberg in a few years if we leave.
Even JRM has said the economy will take 30-50 years to recover, and he's the biggest leaver going.

 

[GeoffCapes]

Germans have a good word too 'Schadenfreude'.....

Probably using a lot now in Brussels....

The French have a word which is probably being used a lot as well. Merde!

 

[D Walker]

What could go wrong for an English guy looking for a bit of work in Europe ???

Doh, I never thought about that!

 

[Wanderer]

The French have a word which is probably being used a lot as well. Merde!

The Danes have a nicer word - Hygge....!

 

[zagatoes30]

In your view but obviously not enough to other people hence the referendum result.

Maybe but that is often down to poor communications from our press & politicians who tend to exaggerate the bizarre rather than celebrate the positive something that has been blatantly obvious by the misinformation from all sides throughout this fiasco.

 

[Oneball]

I have a question I can’t find an answer to and it should be a simple fact I’d have thought.

Whatever happens in March it’s about our relationship with the EU, we have trade agreements, travel agreements, etc with non EU countries by virtue of being in the EU. What happens with these?

 

[Wanderer]

I've mentioned this before but as B-day (or not) is ever nearly what happens in this scenario?

We Brexit, so that means the Republic of Ireland is in the EU and benefits from FoM and the UK isn't and doesn't. The CTA still exists between the UK and the Republic, and the CTA isn't just about travel, it states that British and Irish citizens are not considered foreigners in each others countries and are not subject to immigration control.

To further complicate things, the CTA isn't a legal Act or Treaty, it's more an informal arrangement. To withdraw it would cause outrage, as it's estimated that there's up to 40% crossover wrt to British/Irish family relationships. I can't imagine the EU has even considered this, given it's not in any statute book, and most likely why UK and Ireland joined the EU at exactly the same time (thanks TridentTested).

Any thoughts?

 

[MrMickS]

The EU has a lot of good points but also has things a lot of people disagree with too, if they had been a bit more accomodating to Cameron this saga would've never happened

To do what? To help with immigration when we didn't implement the rules that would have addressed the issue?

The issue has never been the EU, except for a small band of very rich people that didn't want the coming EU clampdown on tax avoidance/evasion, but rather our Governments' continued use of the EU as a convenient scapegoat.

Trouble with policy A? - Blame the EU
Trouble with immigration? - Blame the EU
Trouble with the economy? - Blame the EU, or world markets

The issue, as can be seen by what has happened since the EU ref, is our own self serving politicians, and wannabes like Farage. None of them have taken responsibility for their actions for years, instead they've looked for someone else to blame. No wonder people were fed up with it and voted for a change.

The thing is leaving the EU won't change anything in that regard, except of the worse. They'll still blame the EU, either for the terms of Brexit, or for not giving us the deal we want, or for blocking deals with other countries. The only difference will be there will be no EU brake on policy. So goodbye to the working time directive and other things that help the people at the bottom of the pile.

 

[MaserCoupe]

I've mentioned this before but as B-day (or not) is ever nearly what happens in this scenario?

We Brexit, so that means the Republic of Ireland is in the EU and benefits from FoM and the UK isn't and doesn't. The CTA still exists between the UK and the Republic, and the CTA isn't just about travel, it states that British and Irish citizens are not considered foreigners in each others countries and are not subject to immigration control.

To further complicate things, the CTA isn't a legal Act or Treaty, it's more an informal arrangement. To withdraw it would cause outrage, as it's estimated that there's up to 40% crossover wrt to British/Irish family relationships. I can't imagine the EU has even considered this, given it's not in any statute book, and most likely why UK and Ireland joined the EU at exactly the same time (thanks TridentTested).

Any thoughts?

I think we are in the Indivisibility of the four freedoms territory here. Is that what you mean? Hence the recent events today.

 

[Felonious Crud]

I have a question I can’t find an answer to and it should be a simple fact I’d have thought.

Whatever happens in March it’s about our relationship with the EU, we have trade agreements, travel agreements, etc with non EU countries by virtue of being in the EU. What happens with these?

I think they're bolloxed. Everything that we qualify for as part of being in the EU will need to be renegotiated with those other countries and trading blocks.

 

[allandwf]

I'm not so sure the majority want out of the EU, yes the vote went the leavers way, but that was on the back of a pack of lies told by the leave camp.
We already have control of our borders, having the sea round us helps!
The NHS will be in a worse state if we leave as so many of the lower paid jobs in the NHS are done by immigrants, it's already having an effect. As is the hospitality industry, all these jobs will now have to be filled somehow, and probably by agency workers and temps, all paying higher wages.
Paying higher wages for 'menial' jobs means that there is an imbalance in wages across the board, this leads to inflation.
Inflation affects us all, especially if it starts in wages because it can get out of control and we end up back in the early 70's with huge interest rates, high unemployment, an economy in recession, and discontent.

There's discontent now, obviously, by it will be the tip of the iceberg in a few years if we leave.
Even JRM has said the economy will take 30-50 years to recover, and he's the biggest leaver going.

Why can't they just get a Visa as in other countries?

 

[Wanderer]

I think we are in the Indivisibility of the four freedoms territory here. Is that what you mean? Hence the recent events today.

Yes, it's like Brexit will be easy, oh no, what about the NI border, faff, faff, faff, still not resolved and even if it ever is, then it will be oh no, what about the CTA, more faff faff.

And I've not even started on CI-IoM - UK Crown Dependences but not in the EU but they are part of the EU Customs Area (though not allowed to vote in the referendum).

Fun times....

 

[MaserCoupe]

Yep it is Bonkers!

 

[dunnah01]

I have a question I can’t find an answer to and it should be a simple fact I’d have thought.

Whatever happens in March it’s about our relationship with the EU, we have trade agreements, travel agreements, etc with non EU countries by virtue of being in the EU. What happens with these?

I

There is generally a 2 year transition period whereby EU agreements will remain in place. After that we'll be on our own. It seeps into most areas of industry - random example would be that train drivers must get re-certified before 29th March if their certification lapses before the 2 year deadline. The UK will have to have a new certification body established prior to March 2021 to mirror the EU body to then allow the driver to be re-certified to work after March 2021. Multiply this by every single product or service that wants to be sold in the UK or EU and the £Billions on the side of the bus will pale into insignificance. UK also want to allow for divergence so further bodies will need to be established to determine if the product complies with the EU/UK standards to then determine if it needs UK or EU certification - so more bureaucratic UK bodies... What were Leavers thinking. .

 

[Oneball]

I

There is generally a 2 year transition period whereby EU agreements will remain in place. After that we'll be on our own. It seeps into most areas of industry - random example would be that train drivers must get re-certified before 29th March if their certification lapses before the 2 year deadline. The UK will have to have a new certification body established prior to March 2021 to mirror the EU body to then allow the driver to be re-certified to work after March 2021. Multiply this by every single product or service that wants to be sold in the UK or EU and the £Billions on the side of the bus will pale into insignificance. UK also want to allow for divergence so further bodies will need to be established to determine if the product complies with the EU/UK standards to then determine if it needs UK or EU certification - so more bureaucratic UK bodies... What were Leavers thinking. .

I’m not sure, that’s UK - EU stuff. I think Felonius C might be right.

For example. Trade agreement between Flobadobleland and the EU says 15% import duty on all widgets coming from an EU member country. But as of March, irrespective of Brexit deal or not, we won’t be an EU member country.