Care homes and care workers

[philw696]

Your only looking at the surface detail Phil , the problem is with us , yes us ,it's a horrible thought ,but we as families are shirking our responsibilities to our elders , we have the opportunity to vote with our feet and not fill these nursing homes with our kin folk

Yeah I understand and know what your saying.
One of the reasons of coming back to Europe from NZ.
How we put proper values back into society is another question.
When we were in NZ a new political party started up called the Opportunities Party.
I was totally on board for good honest values and fairness for all.
I proudly voted for them thinking and hoping many others would too.
Guess what very few votes and told by work colleagues I was a Crazy Pom.

 

[Scaf]

Zero hour contracts should've been outlawed before they came off the printer

A bit of a sweeping statement.
I have a number of Zero Hours contracted employees, all have had the chance to sign up to contracted hours but they like the flexibility. To be fair most of mine are retired (police / fire / forces) so the work for me is to supplement their retirement income. As zero hours they can take time off whenever they like, accept or turn down work as they wish and bugger off to Spain for the summer if they want (well before Covid they could).
The important thing is that both parties are happy with the arrangement.

 

[Phil H]

it's a horrible thought ,but we as families are shirking our responsibilities to our elders , we have the opportunity to vote with our feet and not fill these nursing homes with our kin folk

I agree that some shirk responsibility, but that is rather a generalisation and it doesn't give credit to families that do their bit, of which there are many. I think we need to lubricate the discussion one day

PH

 

[Wack61]

A bit of a sweeping statement.
I have a number of Zero Hours contracted employees, all have had the chance to sign up to contracted hours but they like the flexibility. To be fair most of mine are retired (police / fire / forces) so the work for me is to supplement their retirement income. As zero hours they can take time off whenever they like, accept or turn down work as they wish and bugger off to Spain for the summer if they want (well before Covid they could).
The important thing is that both parties are happy with the arrangement.

Retired at 50 on a final salary pension and working for pin money is completely different to someone being forced into a zero hours contract through desperation then never knowing if they're going to get enough work to pay for food that week.

I know a guy who was a beat copper his whole career right up to the last 12 months when he became the desk sergeant so his final salary was at a higher rate for his pension, he's now got a zero hours contract for pin money , what if they're not happy with only getting 5 hours a week

 

[Scaf]

Retired at 50 on a final salary pension and working for pin money is completely different to someone being forced into a zero hours contract through desperation then never knowing if they're going to get enough work to pay for food that week.

I know a guy who was a beat copper his whole career right up to the last 12 months when he became the desk sergeant so his final salary was at a higher rate for his pension, he's now got a zero hours contract for pin money , what if they're not happy with only getting 5 hours a week

As I say - wiping them out completely is a sweeping statement but no one should be forced into a contact they are unhappy with.

 

[lozcb]

I agree that some shirk responsibility, but that is rather a generalisation and it doesn't give credit to families that do their bit, of which there are many. I think we need to lubricate the discussion one day

PH

Of course Phil H as always the stalwart voice of reason to calm the young pip squeak agitator down

 

[lozcb]

Retired at 50 on a final salary pension and working for pin money is completely different to someone being forced into a zero hours contract through desperation then never knowing if they're going to get enough work to pay for food that week.

I know a guy who was a beat copper his whole career right up to the last 12 months when he became the desk sergeant so his final salary was at a higher rate for his pension, he's now got a zero hours contract for pin money , what if they're not happy with only getting 5 hours a week

Then they do a Norman Tebbit , get on their bikes and find something higher paying ,it really isn't rockit science , Wack , the government is there to manage the bigger picture ,not micro manage every **** households problems

 

[lozcb]

Then they do a Norman Tebbit , get on their bikes and find something higher paying ,it really isn't rockit science , Wack , the government is there to manage the bigger picture ,not micro manage every **** households problems

The days of every school sports day where every one was a winner was a millenial woke liberal misnoma , it ain't real life , and the earlier kids learn that life's a ***** and it's every one for themselves the better , then as adults they would be better armed to cope better with life's ups and downs and instead of feeling cheated that society owes then something.

 

[Swedish Paul]

A bit of a sweeping statement.
I have a number of Zero Hours contracted employees, all have had the chance to sign up to contracted hours but they like the flexibility. To be fair most of mine are retired (police / fire / forces) so the work for me is to supplement their retirement income. As zero hours they can take time off whenever they like, accept or turn down work as they wish and bugger off to Spain for the summer if they want (well before Covid they could).
The important thing is that both parties are happy with the arrangement.

And that’s ok for folks coming to the end of their careers. The problem with zero hour contracts is that they are abused and folks are forced onto them (nearly always low paid) as they have no choice. Look at Sports Direct.

 

[Silvercat]

Woke up early, so here's some brief but factual research.
Looking on the Which website, typical costs are around £60k a year for a residential care home (based on the average amount self-funders pay for a residential care home in the area of Surrey County Council) £35k for Salford. It's not cheap.
Obviously a home has to be built in a certain way, capital costs for specialist equipment etc. And the Care Quality Commission do inspect.
Looking at the Indeed website I could see care assistant jobs ranging from £8.80 to £22 an hour but typically around £10.

Make of that what you will. Is the industry fragmented, meaning high costs and low profit margins for owners, or are fatcats at play?

When my Mum was in a care home
( Barchester homes by the way) all she got was a banana and one slice of buttered bread for her tea...high costs?.... No....
Fat Cats .....YES!.

 

[Wanderer]

Try watching 'Sorry We Missed You' - about zero hours contracts in the courier business. Pinko Alert! It's a Ken Loach...

 

[Silvercat]

Your only looking at the surface detail Phil , the problem is with us , yes us ,it's a horrible thought ,but we as families are shirking our responsibilities to our elders , we have the opportunity to vote with our feet and not fill these nursing homes with our kin folk

I dont agree...if you have a relative who is in the advanced stages of Alzheimer's its virtually impossible to be their carer at home given the various behavioural patterns that this dreadful desiese brings with it. My sister tried to look after my Mum but with young kids around it was just impossible to do.

 

[lozcb]

I dont agree...if you have a relative who is in the advanced stages of Alzheimer's its virtually impossible to be their carer at home given the various behavioural patterns that this dreadful desiese brings with it. My sister tried to look after my Mum but with young kids around it was just impossible to do.

All I'm saying for whatever reasons we have allowed to creep in over time , the outcome is its lowered our responsibility to our kinfolk , 85-90% of the world don't have private care homes , it's s Western thing, the rest of the world look after their parents unless hospitalised

 

[Silvercat]

All I'm saying for whatever reasons we have allowed to creep in over time , the outcome is its lowered our responsibility to our kinfolk , 85-90% of the world don't have private care homes , it's s Western thing, the rest of the world look after their parents unless hospitalised

I get where you're coming from. TBH they are the 'forgotten few' of our society and the whole care system for elderly folk needs a serious dose of looking at because its just unaffordable and not good for anyone... not least the poor sods who get left in these places. It shocked me and my brother when we visited a shortlist of 5 of the best ones
(on paper at least) for my Mum. Whatever the soln, it needs to be much more integrated and be part of our mainstream society. Right now it isnt from my experience.

 

[davy83]

A lot of care work and the homes are contracted out to the lowest bidder. The NHS makes cut backs by screwing contractors into doing the work for less money, while maintaining wages and conditions in the office where they issue the contracts. It should be no surprise to any of us that the care homes are not staffed in a way that is focussed on care, and is instead focussed on reducing costs. My daughter works for a private care provider who executes these contracts, and they are constantly being pushed to execute the care work in shorter times, and run with reducing numbers of staff. She has just kind of recovered from Covid (tested positive), but still not well and her company are pushing her to go back to work, bacause they are struggling to stay on top of the work. Its an ugly sitaution. She also worked with a zero hours contract for a while at her own choice and was happy with it, partly because she could turn down some of the terrible shifts and poor jobs that were going about.

 

[CatmanV2]

It's hilarious.

It's everyone's fault but our. Locus of control

C

 

[philw696]

It's hilarious.

It's everyone's fault but our. Locus of control

C

Certainly not hilarious Chris.
It's yet another serious issue in today's society

 

[CatmanV2]

Certainly not hilarious Chris.
It's yet another serious issue in today's society

Oh not the issue. The issue is very serious indeed.

C

 

[Silvercat]

A lot of care work and the homes are contracted out to the lowest bidder. The NHS makes cut backs by screwing contractors into doing the work for less money, while maintaining wages and conditions in the office where they issue the contracts. It should be no surprise to any of us that the care homes are not staffed in a way that is focussed on care, and is instead focussed on reducing costs. My daughter works for a private care provider who executes these contracts, and they are constantly being pushed to execute the care work in shorter times, and run with reducing numbers of staff. She has just kind of recovered from Covid (tested positive), but still not well and her company are pushing her to go back to work, bacause they are struggling to stay on top of the work. Its an ugly sitaution. She also worked with a zero hours contract for a while at her own choice and was happy with it, partly because she could turn down some of the terrible shifts and poor jobs that were going about.

Yep understand where you are coming from but the care home my Mum went into wasnt a public run council funded care home where the NHS would have a significant say in how it was run. It was completely independant (Barchester Homes) and therefore left to their own devices and the NHS had no significant input other than providing the legal framework in which they had to operate. Of course when any of the residents fell ill then the NHS would then get involved.
By the way, my Mums original care home manager got arrested for fleecing the old folk and evetually went to prison!

 

[davy83]

I understand, and the private homes probably do have a lot more control, but i do wonder if the whole market is a bit price driven, causing this problem with low wages.

Yep understand where you are coming from but the care home my Mum went into wasnt a public run council funded care home where the NHS would have a significant say in how it was run. It was completely independant (Barchester Homes) and therefore left to their own devices and the NHS had no significant input other than providing the legal framework in which they had to operate. Of course when any of the residents fell ill then the NHS would then get involved.
By the way, my Mums original care home manager got arrested for fleecing the old folk and evetually went to prison!